Will there be a Peggle Nights DRM backlash?

But it’s not the exact same practice: which company is selling the software matters.

Why does it matter? Because I spent about 2 hours over 6 days on the phone to Chennai, India last week trying to get Spore activated. I’m reasonably certain that if I’d had the same problem with a PopCap game, the situation would have been resolved in about 10 minutes.

So, yes, when EA and PopCap use the exact same DRM system, EA’s by definition is going to suck more. The issue isn’t the technical details of the DRM, but the overall effect on customer experience.

When I had problems with the first Peggle I had to wait almost a week to get it solved.

Note: I’m not picking on Popcap, I have no issues with how they are handling things I just don’t find what they are doing is any different that EA.

What “mob”? Between here and the other thread, many of us are waiting for a Steam release partly because of that very issue. I know people joke about the QT3 Hivemind, but there are very few things you can pin down as “QT3 in its entirety believes and behaves as…” Are there specific people you’re trying to call out?

The people protesting Spore’s DRM.

Can I sign up for that backlash too? 'Cause, damn, I crave a Mac version of this.

Another vote for a Mac version!

Can you give an example of any of those people not having a problem with Peggle’s DRM, or is this just a random straw man that you made up?

A) Philosophically speaking, I object to this DRM exactly as much as EA’s.

B) Practically speaking, I don’t care, because I don’t enjoy Peggle and don’t have any interest in buying it.

Oh yeah, and PopCap’s market is so different and their scale so dissimilar that they are unlikely to buy out or influence other companies I love into using similarly icky DRM. EA, on the other hand, is a very real threat.

I don’t mind DRM as much when the game is cheaper. A casual game is a more frivolous purchase, and I treat it more as a consumable than an asset. I still don’t like it, but I’ll put up with it.

The point being that DRM reduces a game’s value to me.

Maybe I’m being naive, but is anyone aware of any digitally-distributed games that don’t use limited-activation DRM or a heavyweight authentication client like Steam?

One big difference between Spore and Peggle Nights (as purchased on PopCap.com) is that one comes on a disk, and is in a format that historically does not have DRM beyond disc authentication, while the other is in a genre that has historically always had DRM of this type.

I’m a little dismayed to see Peggle Nights/PopCap used as a whipping boy in this thread, because it uses the same DRM that used for a very long time, in an industry (casual games) where everyone uses DRM at least as ‘bad’.

(I say ‘bad’ in quotes, because I don’t think it’s bad at all, and it’s a quite understandable necessity for digitally-distributed games.)

Maybe I’m being naive, but is anyone aware of any digitally-distributed games that don’t use limited-activation DRM or a heavyweight authentication client like Steam?

Galciv?

Stardock, of course.

And the reason I despise both Steam and this Popcap thing I just found out about is that it does “set a standard” for how digitally-distributed stuff should work.

You know how people say DRM doesn’t work on physical media? It doesn’t work any better on downloaded stuff! And it’s no more necessary, because it’s just as easy to Torrent a game ripped off a CD as it is one downloaded from a website. But companies like Valve and Popcap have convinced people that massively restrictive DRM is just the price you pay for convenience.

Touche.

But I think that it’s pretty obvious that Stardock is the exception, not the rule. And I think it’s also important to note that Peggle Nights is a casual game, while GalCiv (and other Stardock games) live in a very different genre and serve very different audiences.

My point still stands that PopCap has done nothing new or controversial with Peggle Nights, and I think it’s important that people understand that. I’m rather disappointed that the title leaves the majority of Qt3 readers (who won’t ever open this thread) with the impression that Peggle Nights has some insidious new DRM. When the reality is that we use the same DRM we’ve always used, which is similar to the DRM used in the entire casual games industry that has existed for several years now.

It was never a problem before. I don’t understand why it’s suddenly a problem now.

And so we’re clear, I have nothing at all do with DRM/wrapper stuff and my reactions here are completely personal reactions as someone who just happens to work at PopCap.

I think you got that wrong. I feel that most QT3ers get the DRM situation, even most of those who don’t appear so in the Spore thread are probably just acting out a hissy fit because it’s fashionable to be anti-EA. Ofcourse the point of this thread was to test that and so far since there is a lack of any sort of outcry, I’m probably right.

Or is it possible that the people criticizing EA in that other thread don’t play Peggle? Or that they do, but get it through Steam? I can only speak for myself, but I don’t own any Peggle games, and haven’t really followed them, and had no idea that they used this DRM scheme until you told me. Unless you know specifically that someone complaining about EA plays the limited activation version of Peggle, this is just baseless conjecture on your part, for the sole purpose of giving yourself an excuse to accuse people that you disagree with of being hypocrites. Before you do that, though, perhaps you should make sure that, you know, they are.

Armageddon Empires. Stardock. Cliff Harris.

And I, like others in this thread, wouldn’t have purchased the original Peggle if I knew about the activation limit. I’m certainly not getting Peggle Nights now.

Because we’re now aware of the installation limitations of Peggle/Peggle Nights.

Oh, I understand your intent in posting it, but I don’t think the masses, even on Qt3, are quite as clued in to every in-joke as you’d think. If for no other reason than most people are too busy to read every thread and understand all the sacastic, meta, in-joke references.

I think it’s understood that many people get some amount of their news by reading headlines. And I don’t think the Qt3 constituancy is substantially different. If I see a title that says “Will there be a backlash against Left 4 Dead’s DRM?”, the odds of me recognizing that as some sort of in-joke are pretty slim. The safe assumption for a passer-by is that there’s something legitimately controversial about Left 4 Dead’s DRM that warrented a 2-page-and-counting thread with that title.

I realize it wasn’t your attempt to demonize Peggle Nights. But as someone who has a vested interest and emotional attachment to that product, I’m frustrated to see it needlessly portrayed in a way that will clearly leave passers-by with the wrong impression. Especially when those passers-by tend to be industry press and other developers.

I don’t mean to harp on it, and I’ll get over it. But I think what I said deserves to be said.

When’s the Mac version come out?

No kidding. I didn’t know about limited activations on Popcap games, I bought the original through Steam.

Gamer’s gate, Matrix games?
I wasn’t aware that Popcap and other casual game developers restrict the number activations. Rob’s post served to ensure that in the future I will make sure before I buy anything form anyone, that I am not restricted from activating the software I bought as many times as I please. I think that all of the complaints raised against EA are valid here as well. You are placing restrictions on your paying customers, while pirates get to install as many times as they want.