Windows 10

LMN8R · 2016-01-07T08:46:16.000Z

And that’s all fine and dandy if you don’t like the way it is. But you’ve known the way it is for months since Windows 10 released, heck months before Windows 10 released.

The problem is that these hack jobs who claim to be journalists are pretending to have found some brand new smoking gun, when in reality the aggregated statistics Microsoft presented are completely within what is already well known to be collected.

ZDNet

Revealed! The crucial detail that Windows 10 privacy critics are missing | ZDNet

Here we go again. The usual suspects are trying to turn routine diagnostic information into another manufactured privacy controversy over Windows 10. Don't fall for it. (PS: You won't believe what Apple's privacy policy says.)

stusser · 2016-01-07T09:08:21.000Z

I’m perfectly fine with any and all controversy over windows 10 privacy, manufactured or not, because I very strongly disagree with the forced telemetry and I want them to change it. The negative publicity suits my agenda.

LMN8R · 2016-01-07T09:37:36.000Z

So you’re OK with large outlets directly lying to and misleading their readers as long as the end goal agrees with your desired goals?

That’s quite a thing. At least come right out and admit that next time.

stusser · 2016-01-07T09:45:09.000Z

They aren’t lying, MS is indeed mining that information. Controversy is being manufactured, not content.

instant0 · 2016-01-07T10:04:59.000Z

And such a simple fix:

Let people disable any and all tracking features if they want to*.
(* - and not enable it again in a new patch, claiming it was a ‘mistake’)

The tracking/spyware features and the forced updates (and no info) are the only reasons I am not using or recommending Windows 10.

Interesting that ZDNet talks about what terms Apple have, as if pointing to the great Satan (apple) somehow clears MS of any critique.

legowarrior · 2016-01-07T10:08:44.000Z

Sure, and when shit goes wrong, Microsoft can spend millions of dollars trying to find the problem, because you’ll be demanding some sort of fix.

Simple solution - buy the enterprise edition.

stusser · 2016-01-07T10:36:51.000Z

@instant0: Indeed, that is all I want. I appreciate and understand the value of telemetry. I agree that it only delivers that value if it’s active by default. I just want a way to opt-out.

LMN8R · 2016-01-07T10:42:42.000Z

No, those articles are lying about Microsoft hiding this information. They’re lying about Microsoft not disclosing they’re collecting this information.

Again, I get that you don’t like it. I get that many people don’t like it, and don’t want it. But that is irrelevant to the discussion about what Microsoft has disclosed about what it’s collecting.

If the articles aren’t maliciously lying, then they’re being willfully obtuse.

legowarrior · 2016-01-07T10:59:29.000Z

ZDNet

Revealed! The crucial detail that Windows 10 privacy critics are missing | ZDNet

Here we go again. The usual suspects are trying to turn routine diagnostic information into another manufactured privacy controversy over Windows 10. Don't fall for it. (PS: You won't believe what Apple's privacy policy says.)

instant0 · 2016-01-07T11:01:40.000Z

legowarrior:

Sure, and when shit goes wrong, Microsoft can spend millions of dollars trying to find the problem, because you’ll be demanding some sort of fix.

Simple solution - buy the enterprise edition.

Pretty sure I’d fire up WinDBG and troubleshoot it myself :-) As long as the MS Symbol Server is up, all is good.

Tman · 2016-01-07T17:53:12.000Z

I work in the quality & reliability department of a certain manufacturer and I can tell you that telemetry data is so useful to create realistic usage scenarios that we spend tons of $$ annually just to get our hands on as much as possible.

When manufacturing an electronic product, you need to know that it will last a certain number of years. This varies by usage scenario. So for example, a phone may only need to live for 2-3 years, where a laptop will last 4-5 years and something in automotive will need to last 10 years.

We run exhaustive simulations (oven / temp / hz / time) to simulate 2,5,10 years and all of this is predicated on the usage models. Having too aggressive of usage models means you are designing things that will last 2x what they are intended to - meaning you’re spending way too much money creating it, or your models are too lenient and your products fail before they’re intended to, which is also bad.

Telemetry data is good, particularly when joined with thousands or millions of others because they we can create accurate models.

It really is beneficial. And it has zero identifying information.

stusser · 2016-01-07T19:52:49.000Z

Did anyone put forth the argument that telemetry wasn’t valuable in this thread? I must have missed it, we are at 68 pages.

Mike_O_Malley · 2016-01-07T21:06:05.000Z

stusser:

Did anyone put forth the argument that telemetry wasn’t valuable in this thread? I must have missed it, we are at 68 pages.

Good thread telemetry would have already given us the answer to this question.

Tman · 2016-01-07T22:14:08.000Z

stusser:

Did anyone put forth the argument that telemetry wasn’t valuable in this thread? I must have missed it, we are at 68 pages.

Well, when you are advocating for getting a version of Windows so you can remove it, yes I guess I would have assumed you didn’t think it’s valuable

stusser:

Go with enterprise, it lets you turn off the telemetry.

stusser · 2016-01-08T07:15:49.000Z

I want to turn it off, yes. That doesn’t mean it lacks value to Microsoft, just that I don’t give a shit, because I value my privacy more than their efforts to improve the product.

inactive_user · 2016-01-08T08:02:12.000Z

The dumb thing about arguing over Win10 telemetry is that it’s bullshit privacy. Anonymous usage statistics are not privacy in any meaningful sense of the term. Emails being logged into a database for later perusal by security services - that’s a privacy breach. My email/identity tied to browsing habits on a website and then sold to marketing firms - that’s an arguable privacy breach.

How often Edge crashes (never, because you can’t crash if you don’t execute) and the number of dropped packets in my Skype calls being logged in anonymized databases in Redmond? Not a privacy breach.

RichVR · 2016-01-08T08:18:02.000Z

If I actually want to run Edge, all I have to do is turn off Windows Firewall. Makes perfect sense.

sharaleo · 2016-01-08T08:26:18.000Z

Adam B:

How often Edge crashes (never, because you can’t crash if you don’t execute) and the number of dropped packets in my Skype calls being logged in anonymized databases in Redmond? Not a privacy breach.

If only that was all they were collecting. Wait, let me check:

People spent more than 11 billion hours on Windows 10 in December 2015.
44.5 billion minutes were spent in Microsoft Edge across Windows 10 devices in December 2015 (0.71 billion hours).
Users asked Cortana more than 2.5 billion questions since launch.
More than 82 billion photos were viewed in the Windows 10 Photo application.
Windows 10 gamers spent over 4 billion hours playing PC games.
Gamers have streamed more than 6.6 million hours of Xbox One games to Windows 10 PCs.
About 30% more Bing search queries from Windows devices compared to previous versions of Windows.

Nope, no crash reports in there.

LMN8R · 2016-01-08T08:53:08.000Z

Which is why the stats you quoted and that those hack jobs are complaining about online can be disabled in any SKU:

https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/mt577208(v=vs.85).aspx?f=255&MSPPError=-2147217396#BKMK_MoreUTC

Basic. Basic device info, including: quality-related info, app compat, and info from the Security level.

Enhanced Additional insights, including: how Windows and Windows apps are used, how they perform, advanced reliability info, and info from both the Basic and the Security levels.

Full. All info necessary to identify and help to fix problems, plus info from the Security, Basic, and Enhanced levels.

If you configure your telemetry setting to Basic, then your device is not sending the aggregate statistics quoted above - “how Windows and Windows apps are used”

legowarrior · 2016-01-08T09:06:07.000Z

So, moving towards more interesting and better topics, it seems that Microsoft is setting up their own Sim Card and plans, probably similar to google fi data.

Its an interesting move.