Windows 8

stusser · 2013-06-06T11:50:24.000Z

They would be foolish not to reboot their marketing with 8.1.

Then again, MS marketing handled the xbone, so they are obviously incompetent boneheads.

Zylon · 2013-06-06T12:39:54.000Z

stusser:

They would be foolish not to reboot their marketing with 8.1.

Bring back Gilbert Gottfried.

Mark_Asher · 2013-06-06T13:07:52.000Z

We just bought a PC that has the infamous Windows 8 installed. Since we don’t have a touchscreen I don’t see a lot of use for Metro. What is the best utility for restoring the Start menu? And does anyone know if Windows updates tend to break these kinds of utilities?

Starlight · 2013-06-06T15:01:34.000Z

I’d recommend Classic Shell - http://www.classicshell.net/
Depending on what you want, 7+ Taskbar Tweaker as well - http://rammichael.com/7-taskbar-tweaker

Windows updates don’t break them, no, IME. I’d disable them before installing SP or 8.1, but that’s just common sense tbh.

stusser · 2013-06-06T16:09:27.000Z

IMO, starisback is the best paid one. Classicshell is fine for free.

But try just living with windows 8 first, or you’ll be stuck running a utility on the side for the rest of your life.

Starlight · 2013-06-06T16:12:19.000Z

A free utility? Forever? Ha.

Murbella · 2013-06-06T17:56:40.000Z

stusser:

IMO, starisback is the best paid one. Classicshell is fine for free.

But try just living with windows 8 first, or you’ll be stuck running a utility on the side for the rest of your life.

You mean kind of like in windows 7 how I used a free utility, for dual monitors, a free utility to have a decent search, a free utility to have a decent music player, a free utility to… well, other things I can’t think of obviously but you get what I mean.

Now in windows 8 I got rid of the dual monitor utility at least.

My (after a couple weeks) original opinion that the new start menu is a pretty decent side grade if you have two monitors still stands. In this case, I use the start screen as my full activity in searching for a program to execute, instead of how the start menu let you keep what you were doing in semi focus.

I still wish some idiot at Microsoft hadn’t set the default search to be segregated though. What a stupid decision.

Mark_Asher · 2013-06-06T18:56:09.000Z

stusser:

IMO, starisback is the best paid one. Classicshell is fine for free.

But try just living with windows 8 first, or you’ll be stuck running a utility on the side for the rest of your life.

I can navigate back and forth from Metro to the desktop just fine. I just find it unnecessary since I don’t have a touchscreen. What would I want to use in Metro that I wouldn’t rather use on the desktop?

JoshV · 2013-06-06T19:55:12.000Z

Murbella:

You mean kind of like in windows 7 how I used a free utility, for dual monitors, a free utility to have a decent search, a free utility to have a decent music player, a free utility to… well, other things I can’t think of obviously but you get what I mean.

7 had trouble with dual monitors? I don’t recall having any difficulty. Or was it just more useful with that utility?

stusser · 2013-06-06T20:18:48.000Z

I have no particular objection to the start screen, and I prefer not to run extra utilities whenever possible. YMMV obviously. I did like startisback the best, but again, classicshell is indeed free.

fdsaion · 2013-06-06T20:58:46.000Z

JoshV:

7 had trouble with dual monitors? I don’t recall having any difficulty. Or was it just more useful with that utility?

Well, it uses them just fine. But you only get a taskbar on the primary monitor. You need to get external utilities (eg/Ultramon, DisplayFusion, Actual Multiple Monitors) to “extend” it to your other monitors and distribute the icons correctly. Now that’s all native.

LMN8R · 2013-06-06T21:17:12.000Z

The thing about all these start menu replacements is that I wish I had them for Windows 7. They all seem to provide some neat useful features that the native start menu didn’t have.

I prefer the start screen overall so I’m not going to use them on Windows 8, especially now that I’m using 8.1 on almost everything (woo dogfooding buggy software), but it’s always kinda cool to see what the community whips up even if it’s for reasons I personally disagree with.

LMN8R · 2013-06-06T22:43:08.000Z

Long video demo of Windows 8.1 features, starts around the 22-minute mark:

Zylon · 2013-06-07T08:18:47.000Z

LMN8R:

The thing about all these start menu replacements is that I wish I had them for Windows 7. They all seem to provide some neat useful features that the native start menu didn’t have.

Or features that the Start menu used to have, but then got rid of, for various ill-considered reasons.

I prefer the start screen overall so I’m not going to use them on Windows 8, especially now that I’m using 8.1 on almost everything (woo dogfooding buggy software), but it’s always kinda cool to see what the community whips up even if it’s for reasons I personally disagree with.

The fundamental forever problem with the Start screen on desktop PCs is that it exists entirely and deliberately in “Metro”-land. It does not share the screen with the desktop, it does not look like the desktop, and it does not function like the desktop. The fact that this was deliberate doesn’t make it any easier to deal with. So people who care about their productivity don’t deal with it.

Starlight · 2013-06-07T08:24:19.000Z

Zylon:

Or features that the Start menu used to have, but then got rid of, for various ill-considered reasons.

Or things the start menu never, but you think are neat anyway. (Woo ClassicShell :P )

I agree with you on Metro. I have Win8 free (Dreamspark Pro), but still use 7.

stusser · 2013-06-07T08:26:04.000Z

I care about my productivity and I like the start screen. It’s not perfect; primarily I wish the taskbar would show in the start screen. (and no, the various apps that resize the start screen to show the taskbar below don’t work for me-- I want it to show when I bring up the start screen from a fullscreen game also.) Also I hate the segmented search, but that’s being fixed in 8.1.

My biggest beef with windows as of 8.1 is the charms bar, which remains terrible for mouse+keyboard. Modern apps are already embedding search bars, which are discoverable, so that’s great. If MS would just put the power button in the start screen on the lower right corner, I could ignore the charms bar entirely. That would be a huge usability win.

nKoan · 2013-06-07T09:33:57.000Z

Zylon:

Or features that the Start menu used to have, but then got rid of, for various ill-considered reasons.

The fundamental forever problem with the Start screen on desktop PCs is that it exists entirely and deliberately in “Metro”-land. It does not share the screen with the desktop, it does not look like the desktop, and it does not function like the desktop. The fact that this was deliberate doesn’t make it any easier to deal with. So people who care about their productivity don’t deal with it.

In 8.1, I think one of the biggest changes they’ve made is simply allowing the start screen to use the desktop background. This little change will help it from breaking the immersion as badly as it did in 8.0.

It doesn’t make the start screen any better, but it certainly will help make the transition less jarring.

Mark_Asher · 2013-06-07T09:41:52.000Z

So do you think the Metro start screen is an improvement over the way we launched programs from the desktop? To me it doesn’t seem that way. I also think Metro is a bit garish on a 20 inch monitor. On a 10 inch tablet it looks fine but blown up it’s busy and the colors are busy.

stusser · 2013-06-07T09:57:58.000Z

It’s an improvement in some ways and a step back in others.

It’s better for actually launching common programs. Nice big mouse targets, no need to squint at tiny lettering. The all apps view is much easier to navigate than all programs was in the start menu, and it’s being improved in win8.1.

The search is shit in win8, but that’s fixed in win8.1 also. The search bar isn’t visible either, which is a discoverability degradation; you need to know that you can just start typing.

And of course you can’t shutdown/restart from the start screen, which is another drawback.

nKoan · 2013-06-07T09:58:10.000Z

For launching programs? I think its mostly the same as before, more or less. But the live tiles do seem to be an improvement over the widgets for at-a-glance live data.