Windows 8

Aleck · 2013-08-23T05:13:47.000Z

Gus_Smedstad:

I didn’t really pay attention to that, since I figure you can always delete it. I deleted HP’s similar stuff off my Windows 8 laptop almost immediately. I’m just fascinated by the idea that we’re going to see a PC manufacturer shipping with something that effectively modifies Windows. That seems like a first.

I think Brad’s moneyhats largely come from deals he did (with Dell, IIRC?) back in the early/mid 2000s to ship some of his programs with Dell computers running Windows. In fact, there’s a version of ObjectDock still out there called “The Dell Dock” which effectively ads a Mac-style dock to Windows.

stusser · 2013-08-23T08:17:21.000Z

I tried pokki, it’s kind of a piece of shit. Start8 is much nicer, and startisback is even better yet.

The pokki pack-in is obviously paid bloatware just like the mcafee trial antivirus, etc.

mono · 2013-08-23T09:10:39.000Z

I got tired of working around Metro related Win 8 behavior and also experiencing some software incompatabilities. I reverted to Win 7. It feels like an upgrade!

Gus_Smedstad1 · 2013-08-23T10:31:20.000Z

One thing I’m not liking about Start8 is that I can’t copy stuff off the fake start menu. Now and then I’ll install something that creates a Start Menu icon but no desktop icon, and I think I’ll use it enough that I want a desktop icon. Start8 will only let me move stuff from the Start Menu, not copy. If I want to copy, I have to right-click to open the shortcut target’s folder, and then copy the target program, copy-create shortcut on the desktop, and then rename it to get rid of “Shortcut to…”

Chris_Nahr · 2013-08-23T10:34:43.000Z

Use Classic Shell, it’s free and lets you copy short cuts from the Start menu!

Gordon_Bleu · 2013-08-23T12:25:00.000Z

mono:

I got tired of working around Metro related Win 8 behavior and also experiencing some software incompatabilities. I reverted to Win 7. It feels like an upgrade!

You’re not the only one. I’m skipping Win 8 entirely. Wake me up when Win 9 is announced. :)

instant0 · 2013-08-23T15:02:24.000Z

Been using Win8 since launch, no problems here. Course, I don’t use metro apps -what-so-ever-. Login, Desktop, Sorted.

Gus_Smedstad1 · 2013-08-23T17:38:41.000Z

instant0:

Been using Win8 since launch, no problems here. Course, I don’t use metro apps -what-so-ever-. Login, Desktop, Sorted.

How are you dealing with the issue of reaching programs that don’t have desktop icons?

It seems like the only solutions are:

Default - use the f’ing search widget to find them by name. A truly painful answer.
Install a Start Menu replacement.
Create some folder heirarchy based on a folder on the desktop, and any time you install something that doesn’t create a desktop icon, manually put it that heirarchy. Essentially a manual version of the Start menu.

Maybe there’s a fourth solution, but those are the ones I know.

nKoan · 2013-08-23T17:44:06.000Z

There is also keyboard shortcut of ‘Win-R’ to bring up the desktop run dialog (instead of using the metro search charm).

I’ve been using it since Windows 7 and it works just as expected in Windows 8 as well.

Starlight · 2013-08-23T17:45:38.000Z

Eh. I’d still rather have the search on the windows key alone (ClassicShell)

Gus_Smedstad1 · 2013-08-23T17:52:31.000Z

nKoan:

There is also keyboard shortcut of ‘Win-R’ to bring up the desktop run dialog (instead of using the metro search charm).

You still have to type out the name of the program, which seems really awkward. I know, I know, I remember the dark days of DOS where we typed out the 8-character name of every program we ran, but I’m spoiled by rapid mouse navigation these days.

nKoan · 2013-08-23T18:33:56.000Z

Gus_Smedstad:

You still have to type out the name of the program, which seems really awkward. I know, I know, I remember the dark days of DOS where we typed out the 8-character name of every program we ran, but I’m spoiled by rapid mouse navigation these days.

Which is the same drawback as the search charm method you mentioned (though slightly easier to get to IMO). Personally, I use ClassicShell too, but even still I use the Win-R more often then not. It primarily depends if my hands are on my keyboard or on my mouse when I want to launch a new program, and 75% of the time, they are probably on the keyboard.

Midnight_Son · 2013-08-25T16:10:30.000Z

It just makes sense to “search” for programs when I know EXACTLY where they are. Right? Right?

Wendelius · 2013-08-25T18:43:55.000Z

Midnight Son:

It just makes sense to “search” for programs when I know EXACTLY where they are. Right? Right?

Of course it does. Why wouldn’t it?

It’s what you have been doing typing c:\dos\copy.exe or opening the right window in Windows 3.1 and double clicking an icon or clicking on Start…My Programs and then going to the right group or using the Start menu and typing the first few letters of a program name in more recent versions. And in Windows 8, the top of the screen says “Search”, but you still are doing exactly the same thing you have been doing. Finding the launcher for your program. Recent Windows versions make it simpler than it was and have changed the UI around it. But whatever it says, I don’t see what the issue is with “searching” for a program. And is the shortcut to search for a program that much more of a hardship than going through the old start menu and program groups? You can also still click on an icon shortcut (desktop or start screen) if you so desire in Windows 8 for those programs you use regularly. No change there. I don’t see the UI as radically worse.

Wendelius

Gus_Smedstad1 · 2013-08-25T19:14:08.000Z

Wendelius:

I don’t see the UI as radically worse.

This reminds me of people who didn’t see the point of menus, back in the day. How was choosing from a list of commands better than typing out the command? The answer now is the same as it was then: because the user frequently doesn’t know all the commands.

That’s why forcing the user to search for programs by name instead of giving them a list is radically worse. The user may not know the name. Or that the program even exists.

Seriously, this is a UI issue that was clearly resolved in the 80’s. Windows 8 is a giant leap back 30 years in UI design.

wumpus · 2013-08-25T22:04:16.000Z

Gus_Smedstad:

That’s why forcing the user to search for programs by name instead of giving them a list is radically worse. The user may not know the name. Or that the program even exists.

Odd. Google still seems to work fine for me. I guess it doesn’t for you?

“If you have three pet dogs, give them names. If you have 10,000 head of cattle, don’t bother.”

Kool_Moe_Dee · 2013-08-25T22:24:20.000Z

Gus_Smedstad:

This reminds me of people who didn’t see the point of menus, back in the day. How was choosing from a list of commands better than typing out the command? The answer now is the same as it was then: because the user frequently doesn’t know all the commands.

That’s why forcing the user to search for programs by name instead of giving them a list is radically worse. The user may not know the name. Or that the program even exists.

Seriously, this is a UI issue that was clearly resolved in the 80’s. Windows 8 is a giant leap back 30 years in UI design.

Are you serious? I think people are far more likely to know the name of the program they want to use (Photoshop, Word, Excel) than where to look for it. You have a generation of users that is used to typing in what they want to find in Google, and expect the right thing to show up. Why is it so astonishing that the same principle is applied to the desktop?

Chris_Nahr · 2013-08-25T23:25:47.000Z

Because the Windows start screen isn’t powered by Google, it’s powered by a primitive name search. You don’t just need to know what capabilities you want to search for, you need to know (almost) the exact program name. What, you have memorized the names of all utilities on your system that you might need once a month? Because I haven’t. Categorized lists are optimal for discovery in a space that’s too big to memorize but small enough to fit on a screen or two. I’m amazed that people would seriously argue against that.

Don_Quixote · 2013-08-25T23:42:03.000Z

Except that that’s all a bunch of bullshit. It is demonstrably untrue. I can start typing various things into the search box, and all the various appropriate utilities built into windows 8 will come up, regardless of whether or not they have what I’m searching for in the name. The search works great. I’ve differed on opinion with people here about whether it should be segmented or not (I vote yes, but apparently I’ve been shouted down in 8.1), but I don’t know that I’ve heard anyone call it broken before outside of that.

Chris_Nahr · 2013-08-25T23:58:45.000Z

Could you provide an example for a Start Screen text search that doesn’t just name-match? I just tried and couldn’t find even built-in tools except by name.

Regardless, the Control Panel provided enhanced text search since Windows 7 and that does work well – but for utilities built into Windows as you point out. Try searching for third-party applications by anything but name.