I don’t think so. I think judges get treated like average citizens when it comes to matters like this. And he’ll have some additional professional discipline to face if the criminal allegations turn out to be true.
Of course the legislative organ is involved, even in an appointment system. In the federal court system and the 11 states that have appointed judges, the legislature retains power to approve or disapprove the appointments. Nevertheless, in those systems you tend to get better qualified judges, if for no other reasons the determining factors are not campaign dollars or (usually) single-issue politics. Take the most recent US Supreme Court appointment, Elena Kagan. A liberal for sure, but not even a conservative like Lindsey Graham could argue with her qualifications and she was easily confirmed.
I think people who are expecting criminal charges in this are getting way ahead of themselves. Except for the rather novel venue and cast, what we have here is the equivalent of a barroom brawl. And the vast majority of barroom brawls never result in charges because it’s time consuming and expensive and a risk for the prosecutor. Again, if the events alleged (either version) happened in a barroom, the cops wouldn’t be likely to even think of asking a prosecutor to press charges unless someone was injured.
The cops and the state prosecutor may not deem a fracas in the judges’ chambers to be a major threat to public order, but it is of course an egregious disruption of the workplace. Administrative discipline seems far more likely here.
This is nothing like a barroom brawl - no alcohol was involved and it took place in a workplace. Unless you think it’s okay for a coworker to throttle you if you get in an argument at work?
Here’s what would happen if that took place in my work: The person would be put on leave pending an investigation, and then fired. There is no room for violence in a profesional workplace.
If a woman got attacked the way this judge got attacked in her chambers, in a bar, I do think they’d at least cuff the guy and haul him in.
Actually, they tend to be “buried” in the Constitution(s), certainly the US Constitution, but a lot of state constitutions as well. However, these immunities are typically only for the legislative branch, not the judicial. There may be laws forbidding the arrest of a sitting justice, but I doubt it. Among other things, an officer would need a warrant to arrest a justice/judge, and other judges are not going to look kindly upon clear attempts to influence judicial policy through threat of arrest.
Also, what happens if the police press charges, it goes up the chain, eventually the appeals bring it to the WI Supreme Court, and … then what? And what’s the likelihood that the Governor might simply pardon Prosser if it comes to that?
Not a clue, but as I understand lawyers, there would such a clear conflict of interest that the justices at hand would be required to recuse themselves are in all likelihood be disbarred. Realistically, a conviction would force the accused to resign anyways.
I reckon it depends on the bar.
My apologies–I had not seen it stated that the argument took place in the presence of other justices.
Justices have immunity regarding their official actions, i.e., the decisions they render from the bench. For example, Prosser is immune from civil suit for his decision in the collective bargainning case. However, that’s as far as the immunity extends. Legally he is as liable under the criminal law for his actions as anyone else. Theoretically he could be charged with assault and battery for his alleged actions. However, as others have pointed out, there’s a big difference between the letter of the law and practicality. Of course, one justice is going to be reluctant to press charges against the other, no matter how much they despise each other. Of course prosecutors are going to be reluctant to charge a sitting justice.
In the end, this particular affair will probably just fizzle out. However, it is a particularly egregious example of what has been the level of discourse on the Wisconsin Supreme Court for some time. Hence my argument for appointed judges.
Exactly. But it’s highly unlikely that anyone would stand trial which was my point. This level of incident normally gets handled by the workplace, not by the criminal justice system.
Yep, quite possibly they’d bring him in to cool off and then release him a few hours later. You’re not going to try that on a judge, though.
We had an incident where a guy snapped and started beating on another worker one day. He pulled him out of his cube and got him on the ground and was whaling on him, like what happens in an MMA fight. We called the police and they hauled him off. I don’t know if he ever was tried, but he was fired.
I don’t see how the female justice in question can work with Prosser again, and I would understand it if she said she didn’t feel safe in the workplace with him present.
Wait, so the pounding continued until the police arrived after the phone call to them?
http://www.salon.com/news/wisconsin/index.html?story=/politics/war_room/2011/06/27/prosser_mad
I’m seeing these excuses pop up all over the place. Mmmm, mmmm, that self-professed belief in taking responsibility for one’s actions? How come I never see it in actual real-world practice from conservatives?
There are several reports around the web that a number of the people who confirmed the altercation to the Sentinel are describing Bradley as the aggressor, that she came at Prosser with her hands raised as fists and he put his hands on her to keep her at a distance. I am not in a place where I can link any of them nor can I speak to their veracity but this appears on the surface at least to be more complicated than was originally reported.
nlanza
1814
I often find that when people are coming at me and threatening to hit me it’s quite reasonable and effective to choke the shit out of them to de-escalate the situation, yes.
(I mean, really, that’s what you’re going to go with? Unsubstantiated she-was-totally-asking-for-it-maybe reports?)
Yes, that is what I am “going with”. Exactly how my post reads, isn’t it? I am also sponsoring “Unsubstantiated she-was-totally-asking-for-it-maybe reports” for membership in the Qt3 cool kids club. Next thing you know, they will be hanging out with Tom, sharing fruity man drinks and front-page space with Bill, and laughing with Flowers as he puts together his latest come-to-Flowers post.
I was attempting to report here what I had read elsewhere and included the limitations to the reportage in the post. If you want to keep your bubble a little long, don’t click links.
In any event, it turns out the source for the new material is the source of the original storyMilwaukee-Wisconsin Journal Sentinel.
nlanza
1817
Ah, a link. Thank you.
There are people who post in P&R whose claims I’ll tend to believe without evidence. You aren’t one of them.
If that means I’m trying to “keep [my] bubble a little long”, whatever the fuck that is, so be it.
I was posting from my phone waiting for my eyes to dilate in a doctor’s office. I said in the post I couldn’t link anything from where I was and had no idea as to how reliable the new angle was. Despite reports to the contrary, I really don’t post for your sole benefit but was trying to add to the thread, perhaps in the hope that someone who wasn’t sitting in a doctor’s office posting from a phone with blurry vision could look into it.
It seems to me that it would have been easier to verify what I had written I had heard rather than being a snide dick but when picking evils, why choose the lesser, right? Keep fighting that good fight.
nlanza
1819
The other read is that you were trying to push an agenda with insinuations.
I’ll let your posting history stand as the example for why I might come to that conclusion.
Meanwhile, please do continue to lecture me in your hilariously clumsy way.
Raife
1820
The Sheriff’s Department has opened an investigation.
MADISON - Justice David Prosser says he is planning to fully cooperate with investigations into an alleged fight with another justice.
The statement says “The sheriff can expect the full cooperation of Justice Prosser who believes a thorough and impartial review will be the proper channel for the facts surrounding this incident to be reported to the general public."
It went on the say "In light of the referral and potential inquiry, additional public comments would not be appropriate.”
Prosser is accused of putting Justice Ann Walsh Bradley in a chokehold during an argument in her office June 13th.
Prosser claims he put his arm up to block her as she charged him.
Dane County Sheriff David Mahoney said his office opened an investigation into the incident at the request of the Capitol Police, which have jurisdiction in the building where the argument took place.
The state judicial commission, which oversees judicial conduct, also announced it had opened an investigation. The commission could ultimately make a discipline recommendation to the state Supreme Court, potentially putting some justices in a position to rule on their colleagues’ fate.
Bradley declined an interview request through a court spokesman.
The Dane County Sheriff’s Department had no comment on the issue, citing the ongoing investigation.
