Wonder Woman 2017 - Beating Marvel to the punch


#363

It was a perfectly fine, entertaining movie. It only really fell flat right at the end boss battle. But it was overhyped. It wasn’t a revelation, a great superhero movie like The Dark Knight, Logan, or Iron Man 1.

It got a lot of attention due to its female protagonist, and if that leads to more superhero movies with female leads I’m all for it. I just hope they’re better than this one.


#364

I think I read a trade paperback of WW when I was young, about Artemis and her rivalry with Diana. It is nothing like that.

I’d say it is even worse than Ant-man, because of the incoherence (Hello Suicide Squad! And BvS! You have company!) There is this sophisticated and at times cynical Diana in BvS (basically the only good thing about BvS IMO is the introduction of WW and Gal Gadot). And then you have this child-like Diana here. Stop Ares, stop the war! No one is that naive, right???


#365

A lot of time passed between Wonder Woman and BvS. In that time she matured and became more familiar with the ways of the world. She was sheltered in WW.


#366

As Kerzain noted, that’s not surprising. By the end of WW, she had been out in the wider world less than a month, probably. Comparing that to the same character 100 years later and having a problem with her earlier self being more naive doesn’t make any sense.

Bizarre complaint.

And yes, love being the key was too Japanese anime for me, too.


#367

My point is, it made the movie uninteresting. It would be interesting to see her naivity challenged, and see her character evolve in order for her to come to her conclusion that humanity is worth saving. Naturally, like Leeloo Dallas Multipass in the 5th element. Instead, she just sort of suddenly says yes human love is worth saving and then go on to beat the loving crap out of Ares.


#368

I read this part of your quote as complaining about here naivette being unbelievable. Yet, she was literally raised on an island, told that she was made from clay, and that her entire culture/race was put on Earth by Zeus to stop Ares. “Stop Ares, stop war!” sounds completely reasonable for someone like that.

Your point on the turn-around, after that belief was disproven, is more reasonable. In my view, if they didn’t try to cram it down with the “love” dialog, I think it would have been fine—Trevors’s sacrifice is what restores her belief that the world of man is worth saving. Labeling it the power of love is what made it go all Macross.


#369

And when she was leaving the Amazonians, the Queen also told her that it was just a story. And the Amazonians withheld so much information on her origin (she is the weapon, not the sword), it is as if she is still a child. If you are saying that she is THIS naive is internally consistent, then I agree with you. On the meta level, however, IMO it is BORING to have this as the origin story for a women-child demigod. There is no natural character growth, which brings me to the point about LOVE! What? If that is the conclusion of her character growth, then it is just too quick, and completely unearned. Maybe a demigod figure things out faster than normal people?

People comparing it to CA1 is right IMO, in that it is kind of a meh: Steve is essentially still Steve at the end of CA1. Captain American only really got going in Winter Soldier, when Steve grows as a character as he reacts to the world. Iron Man 1 is perhaps the gold standard of origin movie, in that there is natural character growth within that one movie, Stark from a total narcissist to non-total narcissist.

Gal Gadot is great as Wonder Woman, but I’m saying the material she has to work with is dire. It is dire because the beating human heart of the movie is missing, that the character growth is unearned. IMO WW the movie only wins because of Gal Gadot, and the cachet of WW.


#370

I just saw the movie. I agree 100%. One thought that came to me during the fighting at the Front when WW assaults the german trenches through No Man’s Land and then later the town, was that THIS is what I wanted to see in Captain America, but never got to see.


#371

I guess despite the positive word of mouth I still went in with very low expectations, considering that this takes place in the same universe as Man of Steel and Batman Vs Superman.

Plus it really did feel like a revelation to me, in the same category as Dark Knight, Logan, Toby McGuire’s Spiderman, Winter Soldier, etc., because of the tone of the movie. I’ve certainly come to expect a darker, more serious tone from superhero movies, or at best, a more carefree tone in movies like Guardians of the Galaxy. Wonder Woman was a revelation to me because of that combination of optimism and naivete in the main character. It really felt different and fresh.

Though I do agree the final boss fight was a bit of a let-down. I wish the writers had found a way to make that last fight as refreshing as the rest of the movie.


#372

Sorry to keep posting back to back to like this, but I’m still thinking about how much I loved this movie. The breakout performance for me was the British lady (I’m assuming) who played Chris Pine’s secretary. She was sooooo good. Her comedic timing and delivery was just so spot on, she had me laughing out loud in several scenes.

Edit: Looking up IMDB, That was Lucy Davis, who played Dawn on the original British Office. I totally didn’t recognize her. Wow!


#373

Variety confirmed that Patty Jenkins will direct the sequel.


#374

Also, Wonder Woman is the #20 top domestic-grossing movie: http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/domestic.htm

It seems instructive to me that Wonder Woman’s gross has been so heavily domestic relative to other, similar movies that make most of their gross overseas. If it had a typical international take relative to its domestic revenue, it would be a good bit higher than #65. While America is no feminist utopia, we seem to have less trouble with a female protagonist than many foreign markets. Even the most recent Star Wars episode is only 54.7% foreign.


#375

I only saw it because WW is hot. I don’t have a problem with those types of protagonists.


#376

We covered in the Last Jedi thread that the Star Wars date did indeed slip to December as suspected, putting Episode IX and WW2 a week apart.

I missed this last week, but as you’d expect, Wonder Woman blinked in that showdown:


#377

It’s pretty cool that just by avoiding that thread, I have no clue what’s coming in Last Jedi. In the Force Awakens, I ran into quite a few spoilers just in internet headlines and late night talk show hosts talking about trailers and news hosts talking about trailers. This time around everyone just talks about Trump. I haven’t heard or seen anything about the movie, so just by staying away from the Last Jedi thread, I’ve been able to avoid any images or trailers or posters or news. Pretty amazing. That almost came to an end yesterday during Sunday Night Football, when a trailer started for Last Jedi during the game. I quickly changed to Wolfenstein 2 though.


#378

Close call! I saw the first trailer for The Last Jedi (on purpose) and decided after that to go on “full media blackout” (so I haven’t been back to the thread here in quite a while). I’ve been keeping my headphones in during previews at the theater so I can crank some music and close my eyes every time a new trailer comes on. So far so good, just a few more weeks…


#379

And this is why you DVR the games and skip commercial breaks!