One thing I never realised til today: when you use the shift key to toggle zoomed in it doesn’t quite zoom in to the max. Use the scroll wheel to zoom even closer; my sniping has improved loads suddenly!

But the JPz IV does have a better gun than the Pz IV – it gets access to the 8.8cm PaK36 L/56 which does 60% more damage. It is also substantially more difficult to damage a JagdPanzer. In addition to having 60% thicker frontal armor, the JagdPanzer armor is sloped. The Panzer IV is very easy to damage, as long as you know that you have to target the hull, not the turret.

OTOH the JapgPanzer is one tier up from the Panzer IV. Regardless, my experience facing the JagdPanzer IV is that it is a very dangerous and tough opponent when taken frontally. The Panzer IV is not bad for its tier, but I’d far rather face a Panzer IV than a JagdPanzer in most circumstances.

I’m not sure the Panzer IV is really fast enough or nimble enough to be a good brawler anyway.

In games where it’s at the top or mid tier it totally is. or at least it was for me in beta… The T-34 works as a brawler and the PZ4 with stock turret is fairly similar.

To run heartily into the land of personal opinion, my experience is that these are, essentially, the same gun - one has more pen, the other more damage. If I was back in a PzIV today and the 88 was available, I’d still choose the L70, simply because, at tier, it’s the better gun.

However, when I moved up to the VK3001(H) and JPzIV I did quickly swap to the 88. Not because it was a “better” gun, but due to a thought process that went something like “well, neither of these guns is going to kill the stuff I’m facing now, so I may as well take the fatter one and some HE and cross my fingers.”

I’ll readily admit that my experience could have been tainted by this being beta and the softwipe fiasco that led to half the team compositions being a Leopard, a KV, four Tigers and nine IS4/IS7 and the bug that meant that putting a camo net on a TD made you more visible, (shudder), but the addition of the Schmalturm and the L70 to the PzIV just felt like the designers admitting they didn’t have a very interesting tech tree for that tank and so “hey, I saw a drawing once with a Schmalturm on a IV, even though it wouldn’t fit in the turret ring and the thing couldn’t move after… let’s do that!”

I’m just a tedious old fan of the TD and wanted more people to come enjoy the fun of getting tracked and being unable to fight back and so seeing the 70 on the IV when it was exclusive to its TD cousin made me sad panda.

Sorry but this doesn’t make any sense to me. When exchanging L70 for the short 88, you give up a few mm of penetration and gain 60% damage. If anything, this makes the 88 a better gun at tier.

Thank you! I am currently working my way up the German tank research tree and playing with my Hummel to break monotony. Your take on the maps will help.

And reload time. And accuracy. The L70 has another potential 5 rounds per minute, which closes the potential damage gap quite a bit. Especially as each round is also more likely to hit.

This is why I prefaced the comment with a line about opinion - I really feel this gun choice is a “pick 'em” depending on your preference as a tanker. In tier 5 battles I always felt I wanted to shoot more often and more accurately. Perhaps because last year those particular battles were swarming with Leopards. Add in the Schmalturm’s painful traverse, (23 degrees/sec - ouch), and I didn’t want to be swinging a gun around trying to line up a shot because my first effort missed.

Maybe if I could have tried the 88 in the PzIV with the 100% crew from my VK I would change my mind. I’m open to Wargaming.net giving me an 88 for the IV to find out. :D

The rate of fire argument only holds if one ignores the practical conditions of combat. Targets aren’t available 100% of the time – indeed you often get just one shot before the target vanishes from sight or ducks behind cover. Higher damage is consistently more useful in WoT because we’re not fighting on an empty plane with no obstructions (an environment in which DPS would be king).

I’ve done some comparisons using my own stats and the (same tier) vehicles with the higher damage guns consistently do more damage per battle.

I think their can be exceptions, e.g. the fast firing 57mm on the T34, and tbh sometime opting for the more accurate gun can be wiser depending on your style of play.

I brought up whether to use the 7,5cm L/70 or the 8,8cm L/55 a few pages ago. Since then I’ve experimented extensively with both guns and I’ll have to agree that the 8,8cm L/55 is generally better in large part for the reason you list here. A lot of times an opponent will be exposed and won’t know it. As soon as you hit him, he’ll pull behind a building or something. Even if you miss with the 8,8cm, more often than not, the enemy won’t think he’s targetted and will stay exposed. So a bigger hit is better than multiple lighter hits. Also sometimes you’ll get one shot as someone passes between buildings. Plus, it’s more likely you’ll KO someone with the first shot and not have to take return fire.

I do miss the L/70’s accuracy, as there are times I’ll take a shot with the L/55 and think “dang, I can’t believe I missed that.” But generally the L/55 is pretty accurate.

I like the fast rate-of-fire when doing something like circling about a SPG and trying to take it out, but not wanting to stop and aim and get blasted by all the guns pointing at me. But for a TD like the JgPz IV, I think those situations are much less likely to occur.

I’m thinking of playing some artillery, how do the Soviet, German, and US SPGs compare?

soviet pwn, german suck and us only get good after some incredisuck vehicles. what did you expect?

I am shocked schurem, absolutely shocked!

This Victory In Europe day 5x exp for first win of the day thing is great. Jut got 5,925 xp for a battle with my T28 :D

its awesome, i blew every bit of creds i had on the 50% discounted mods. and i was well over halfway to a kv3 :/ ah well :) now my earner tanks earn even better, being all pimped out in fans and rammers and stuff.

I would just like to thank everyone in this game who play as traditional tanks. You guys are the unwitting (or in some cases, witting) volunteers who make the game I’m playing enjoyable. You are all just feeble ants bumbling around in my viewfinder, sometimes providing a satisfying challenge to my cause of raining hell onto your position. I would particularly love to salute those of you who play artillery but never move after you fire, you guys make satisfying and predictable targets as my shell disappears into the ground and some yellow-colored text pops up on the right side of my screen, feeding me a seemingly arbitrary number of points which I can interpret only as Awesomeness Credits.

Thank you all for your selfless contribution to my entertainment.

Artillery seems to be quickly falling out of use in the higher tiers. Rare to see more than 2 artillery per side in a battle at tier 6 and 7, and often 1 or none. Not really sure why that is.

High level arty takes amazing amounts of time to get to. It’s 127,000 from T5 arty to T6.

so if your awesome tier8 mobile mound doom gets swiped off the map like a loltractor you will know it was one dedicated motherfucker who did that.