Neither the T29 nor the IS has a derp gun. The Tiger does, but it’s the old snubnosed 105 that worked well around T4-5. No reason to use it on a T7 tank. I assume what you’re actually referring their regular 105mm and 122mm guns, respectively.
I played all three T7 heavies extensively in the beta (first the Is, then the Tiger and finally the T29), and I’m fairly sure that the answer to ydejin’s scenario is the T29. And it won’t matter a jot if it’s carrying its 90mm (only a bit less accurate than the 88, slightly more damage, but significantly less penetration) or the less acrruate but harder-hitting 105mm gun. Being virtually invincible will win the day. If the T29 has been sporting enough to mount the upgraded turret with the big weak points, the Tiger has a theoretical chance, but the IS might as well not bother at that range. My money’s still on the hull down T29. And at the specified range, I’d prefer to use the 90mm for the T29, but it won’t really matter if you miss some shots when you can sit there bouncing incoming fire all day. Fortunately, most T29 drivers in the game won’t bother looking for hull down positions. That makes it much easier to kill T29s than it would be if people just would learn to exploit its strengths.
If “partially under cover” does not mean a hull down position, my answer is: probably the Tiger, possibly the T29, and certainly not the IS.
Yes, that’s the theory. Empirically however, I’ve found that it matters a great deal more than those numbers would imply. There’s a noticable difference in what shots I can take and reliably hit with the 0.03 difference when going from 0.3 to 0.33. A difference of 0.05 is even more pronounced. When you’re up around 0.38-0.4, sniping effectively is pretty hopeless. Which I guess is one of the reasons the IS-3 and the IS in particular has a playstyle more similar to medium tanks than the other heavies. Long range sniping is for the most part not an option. When the IS-3’s 122mm finally gets an accuracy upgrade from 0.4 to .35, it’s pretty noticable.
I calaculated the horsepower-to-weight ratios for the T7 heavies a while ago. I don’t believe the module weights have been changed since then, so the values should still be valid. The values are for fully upgraded tanks, unless otherwise stated. Radio upgrades are the exception; I did not bother including those as a 15kg difference in weight for a radio upgrade is insignificant compared to a 1500kg difference for a turret.
Tank hp/w ratio Top speed
IS 15.15 34 km/h
Tiger I 15.35 30 km/h
T29 12.53* 35 km/h
- Using the T29’s stock turret. If for some reason you want the upgraded turret, the ratio drops to 12.40.
In practice, I have found that the hp/w ratio matters more than the top speed. The T29 is theoretically the fastest tank, but in practice, it usually feels like the slowest of them all, due to the low hp/w ratio. At 60+ tons, you don’t often reach that speed (unless you go downhill a lot). The IS and Tiger I felt about as fast when I played them. If you keep going for an extended period of time the IS eventually goes faster, but I did not really find this noticable when switching between them.
For reference, the fully upgraded T29 is comparable to the Tiger I with the second engine upgrade (13.23 hp/w).
Cool info, thanks. My heavy of choice right now (ok, my only heavy) is the T29. It is slow, but it is tough, and it hits pretty hard. Single-digits going up hills ain’t fun, but oh well. Now, it seems the cognoscenti don’t actually use the upgraded turret? I confess, I haven’t min/maxed things at all, and just assumed the upgraded turret, which I think has better spotting range and better traverse, maybe, was overall a logical upgrade? Should I retrograde to the old turret, and will the 105 fit on it? I do like the 90 though, it’s a nice cannon.
Clan battles that were supposed to happen late at night actually happened early this morning today. It was fun watching us scramble to commit a full team as our home base in Israel came under assault.
I’m finding the S-51 to be a great arty even against t10 heavies like the Maus. I bagged two Maus kills and a T30 in two matches, plus a Jagdtiger and some other assorted tanks.
The game is entirely different with a full team on voice comms and something at stake. Much more tactical and exciting.
Dejin
3485
Thanks for working those out Apodemus. I agree hp-to-weight ratio is probably more important than top speed. That’s probably particularly true in close-in combat. At least in my T-44 I find I do a lot of starting and stopping, and high acceleration rates can be very important. Probably a bit less important for heavies, but still useful.
You don’t need the turret to mount the 105 mm. It would seem logical to upgrade it, yes. The three degrees of traverse don’t matter that much on a heavy. The longer view range and the extra HP you get would be nice. Problem is that the gigantic elephant ears on that turret can be penetrated by just about anything, and they’re fairly easy to hit. You really have no armour there at all. The extra HP the turret gets is, IMO, offset by the fact that it’s that much easier to knock HPs off you. Going hull down no longer turns you into a fortress, if your opponents knows where to aim.
The only real downside with keeping the stock turret is that you miss out on those extra 40m of viewing range and the cosmetic appeal of the upgraded turret - the stock one is a bit plain. Personally, I chose to sacrifice a module slot for binoculars and skipped the second turret.
Hmm, may have to try that. Worth a shot anyhow, as it’s a long way to the next tier.
Which gun do you need to unlock on the kv to get a free kv-2?
According to this, you only need to unlock the turret itself, not the guns:
http : //game.worldoftanks.eu/news/full-tech-trees-revised-and-improved
(because I can’t insert proper links yet)
Additionally players who have researched KV-2’s turret for KV will get a KV-2 with an extra garage slot and the KV-2 will be assigned a 100% crew.
You have all the time in the world to do that though. There’s a fairly distinct ETA for the us tree rebuild, a slightly less definitive one for the german tree, and no ETA given whatsoever for the russian tree.
I’ve read that the M46 Patton tank is to be added with the v.0.6.5 patch, but the only date I have found for that is in the World of Tanks 6.4. - 6.5 preliminary patch notes which state: ETA end of June - beginning of July.
I haven’t seen anything regarding a date as to when the changes to the German tank tree go into effect. Where can I find the “less definitive” date you mentioned? I am working on my Panzer II and would really like to know.
Overlord has mentioned in his blog that the new German Medium E-50 and the new heavies E-75, E-100 will be in the 6.6 update. I haven’t heard an ETA on the 6.6 update but my guess is it will be in the August-September range.
BTW if you can research the Panther and have it in your garage at the time the 6.6 update, you will gain the Panther 2 and a extra garage slot to your account. This is what I’m going for at the moment since I’ve heard the Panther is as bad as the 3001p from the stock setup. If this is the case I would rather skip the Panther entirely, then grind through another horrible stock tank.
Dejin
3493
I can’t imagine it would be as bad as a VK3001P The armour sloping looks much more like the VK3002DB, which does a decent job of shrugging rounds hitting it from the front, and it looks like it’s got about 20% more horsepower/tonne than the VK3001P. I’m still about 20,000 xp from unlocking one myself.
Thanks for the link to Overlords’ blog!
Yes, I had read about the free E-50 for those with a Panther II in their garage. The only Panther II topics I have left to research are the tier VIII 7.5 cm gun and the tier X engine. From the information on Overlords’ blog, it looks like I will have plenty of time to finish them.
ShivaX
3495
Nothing can be as bad as the VK3001P stock.
A unarmored box, with a crap gun that can barely move.
The Panther has sloped armor and a fair amount of it, so it already wins.
3001p has been buffed i think in the last patch, its much harder to hit these days. it still needs its upgrades badly but at least now its not also big in addition to all its other failings.
I think the stock SU-85B gives it a run for its money. A low-damage gun with so little penetration you’ll bounce off of most medium tanks of equal tier, crappy HE damage, criminally small gun traverse (on El Halluf, from the ridges I can’t shoot into the valley, and from the valley I can’t shoot into the ridges), painfully slow movement…
It gets better with either of the 85mm guns, at which point it’s actually fairly scary to most vehicles, but the gun traverse issue is so annoying that I’m going to go for the SU-85 as soon as I can.
dude, get the dead-end gun for the 85B and you will pwn everybodys faces. you still are weak and unarmored but you can kick em in the nuts like nobody’s bussiness.
If you refuse to grind dead-end guns on soviet TD’s you are shit out of luck, because its like that from the su76 up until the su152. the soviet TD’s best guns all make them vastly OP for their tier, which is funfunfun to drive.
This also goes for the 85mm gun on the T-28 by the way, which also freakin rocks
The second, long 122 for the SU-152 is a hoot, for sure. Yeah, it’s a dead end, but people have to respect it. If, that is, you can actually hit anything with it…
Doesn’t the stock SU-85B have access to the 57mm ZiS-4? You know the best gun on the T-34 and SU-76? I remember that gun being quite effective in allowing me to get the two 85mm ones.
The final 85mm gun is a monster, though. Having 130mm penetration and 160 damage is unmatched by any other vehicle in tier 4 .
But yes, it’s true that it makes perfect sense to move on to the SU-85. That 107mm gun is an even more powerful relative to its tier. But SU-85B should not be dismissed though – one gets used to the limited traverse, at which point you are left with a really powerful gun and very good speed for that tier.
All that said, I still think TDs are mostly screwed in 0.6.4. My garage consists of 5 medium tanks and one artillery piece these days (T-44, T23, Panther, Sherman E8, T-34/85 and Hummel) – no TDs. That may change however with the introduction of US TDs, two of which have turrets, and may thus be used like up-gunned medium tanks. I speak mostly of the M36 Jackson – which seems like a Sherman M4 but with a 90mm gun. :)
