The way I see it (and PapaSmurf I think is correct, the stats are bistromathics), if you’re going to be in to a tank for a long time, you pretty much need all the mobility upgrades. It simply makes it much less horrible to grind it out to the next tank. The step up from the T29 is a hundred grand, so you might as well enjoy the ride.
Dejin
3562
The penetration and armour numbers don’t work exactly because they take things like the sloping of the armour into account, so it’s not a matter of just comparing numbers.
For the rest, we all know that the program ultimately uses numbers underneath the hood. I think it’s unlikely that numbers like weight of tank and HP of engine aren’t just used directly by the program. Why would they bother having one set of numbers exposed but only cosmetic and a second set of numbers actually used by the game engine.
The T29 and T30 have the same turret.
The program uses different numbers. You could definitely see this in the beta, when tanks would get slower or faster with each patch, as needed. The Tiger is the most obvious example.
Trying to get wins for all my tanks and so far I’m 0-10 with a 567 xp, 19,800 credit, reaper game as a KV as a part of that. Some days you just can’t buy a win.
Edit: 2-10. Finally the bleeding stopped.
Dejin
3565
True, my worst losing day was something like 2-16.
Naturally the game uses numbers, but I don’t think that there’s any reason to assume the numbers we get are the same being used in the algorithms–and for that matter, without knowing the algorithms, that is, how the numbers are being used, we really end up pretty much in the dark. I suspect that at some level there’s some relationship between the display numbers and the calculation numbers, but I’m betting it’s far from one to one. But then, it’s all rather opaque anyhow, so who knows?
All I can do is go by how things feel in the game, and those engine upgrades ‘feel’ worth it. YMMV.
The Tiger is kind of an incorrect example because its speed has changed together with the stat number and what affected it was the change made to its chassi (limiting its top speed).
Having said that, the game is using many more numbers than what it displays to the public. Engine is a good example - in addition to the simple power/weight ratio, they also model stuff like torque and whatnot. So, like with the T29, even if the power number doesn’t increase that drastically, there are other numbers under the hood that do and the end result of an upgrade is much more impressive than what’s suggested by the listed horsepower.
Similar to this is armor. The game displays only 3 values (front/side/rear) but actually each tank’s armor consists of 16 (18?) “modules”. There is no way for them to list all of them, so they chose the more “popular” ones.
So we do see the numbers that are used in the algorithms but not all of them. And sometimes it does get a bit missleading (like looking at Ferdinand’s 200 mm of frontal armor and not knowing about its lower glasis that has only 120 mm).
It’s just a UI limitation and the devs trying to make the game more accessible to the public.
As for the T32/T34/T30 question, I haven’t played these tanks but the generally accepted opinion is that T32 is pretty good, T34 sucks and the T30 is awesome. However, you always have to hide their soft belly, which to be honest, really applies to all tanks and TD’s.
In other news, I’ve met the T95 a couple of times and have kind of mixed feelings about it. On one hand, it’s freaking scary to face it (although, I haven’t had much time to try and find vulnerabilities in its frontal armor). On the other hand, it’s often late to the party and is easily flanked.
The couple times I’ve run in to a T95 it was so slow it basically played little role in the battle. In a defensive position against an aggressively advancing foe I’m guessing it could be pretty wicked. As an assault vehicle, well, plan on a week for your attack.
Riztro
3569
The american top tier heavies are all belly below the neck though.
On the contrary, derp guns will almost always hurt even tier 10 heavies, even if it’s by a few percentage points. While the “real” anti-tank guns bounce off repeatedly.
That lowly T82 with its derp gun can even hurt a Maus. That’s pretty much the trade off you make, horrendous accuracy stats (though it’s not so bad in practice) for the ability to hurt anything on the battlefield, no matter how badly matchmaking has screwed you.
The T32 is a dog when you first get it. It can barely move at all and has a paper turret (the tracks are incredibly important for mobility, something you can’t tell from its paper stats).
Once upgraded though it’s probably the best tier 8 heavy in the game.
Didn’t go beyond it in the beta (and stuck on T1 heavy in release – shudder).
Except the T32, which is abnormal in that it actually has pretty nice hull armor in the front. And its turret is stronger than even that of the T30.
That’s kinda what I said but then again…
So is the Ferdi or Jagdtiger. Or IS-3 or KT. No one really shoots the turrets anymore, everyone is aiming at the lower glasis because it’s the most reliable way to penetrate them (except for the Object 704, which I think is easier to penetrate through the star beside their gun).
So in reality, whether you are driving an IS-3 or Ferdi or T-32, you ALWAYS want to hide everything below your gun.
Why is the m3 Lee not a td? Doesn’t it play almost exactly like one of the more maneuverable tds?
which is how it is in real life as well. its called a hull-down position. its why gun depression is an utterly vital statistic in real life tanks.
pdf of a field manual look up the bit on fighting positions.
Actually, world of tanks has shown me the value of tall tanks such as the sherman. If your fighting in rocky, built-up or cragy terrain, it can often peep over cover allowing it to sustain fire while remaining mostly in cover. Its easier to find a good hull down position for a sherman than for a T-54.
On the other hand, on shallow hills and such, a tank better be as flat as possible to present a smaller target. I dont think its a coincidence that after sherman almost all tanks look like their designer was striving for as low a profile as possible.
Riztro
3574
Well, yeah. My point was just that the t-29, 34 and 30 are spongecake regardless of where you aim as long as it isn’t the turret. That makes a rather large difference in that you can take shots sooner in shoot and scoots. Especially makes a difference as an IS/3 where you really want to use mobility and take sneak shots on otherwise occupied tanks but your gun isn’t a very fast aimer.
The US kept with the high-profile, roomy tanks longer than most, and you could still argue that the M1 is a pretty tall vehicle, though it’s squatter than its predecessor. The M48/60 line was our MBT through the seventies and it was very much in the mold of the Sherman–tall, roomy, good elevation and depression of the gun. The USSR went pretty much straight into the opposite approach, with squat, flat, uncomfortable tanks that were lighter and packed a good punch at the expense of survivability (apparently they figured they’d have more of 'em to lose). Everything is a trade off–small size makes for small targets, but poor fighting conditions. Tall tanks are more comfortable and have good visibility, but are also big ass targets.
The game’s spotting system doesn’t adequately penalize large vehicles I think, or maybe it doesn’t adequately reward small ones, unfortunately.
Dejin
3576
So do people with derp guns always just load HE? The term was AFAIK originally used for the KV 152mm, which actually seems to have pretty good penetration for it’s tier. I assumed people loaded it with AP normally and switched to HE when penetration wasn’t possible, same as with other tanks.
Most derp guns have such low penetration that the only things they would penetrate would get one shotted by the HE anyway. Also the penetration values are not very different anyway (due to the lower velocity). And then some derp guns don’t even have an AP option.
Dejin
3578
Thanks for the Field Manual link. Looks like there’s all sorts of good stuff in there.
The T1 and M6 used to work quite well getting behind boulders and shooting over the top, something shorter tanks and TDs couldn’t do. But it seems like most of those boulders are going away, replaced with much taller ones which give better protection against artillery.
Tman
3579
I’ll join that club. I can’t get a win in my su-14.
Seriously this game is all sorts of fail. I have a saying and it’s “fail team” when I’m one of the last 4 standing and the other team has 10-12 tanks left.
So much fun. Not.
Don’t know why people complain so much about this game. Yes, there are balance and matchmaking issues, but I haven’t had this much fun from a game in years.
