Yea, the Löwe simply earns way more on average per match than any other tank. I wish the game tracked average net credits earned, but I would estimate the profit is around 45k a match.

The gun is really quite good, and I agree that is pretty evenly matched with the other tier 8 heavies. Decent armor from the front, and turret can bounce a lot of shots. It is very slow, but you will be sniping from a distance anyway.

Edit: I just played a match to see how the numbers break down. I have premium, and it turned out to be a pretty decent match as I did about a dozen damaging shots before I was destroyed:
Credits earned: 81k
Costs: 8k repair, 14k ammo, 6k consumables
Profit: 53k

Most of the Tier Vs make money. Decent money on a win, and still make money on a loss. Not going to be earning 40k every match, closer to 30 at a peak, with 20k being more likely.

Arty, I’m not sure about the money, maybe if it’s fully upgraded parts and skills. You’re so dependent on your team as well, it’s frustrating when they decide not to cover a flank or just ignore scout tanks and you get killed early. I’m making money, but I haven’t seen any big payouts yet. Though I don’t have any modules or a high skill crew on my Tier6 arty, or the upgraded gun (which shoots even slower, yay)

Re StriderEgg, and no incentive to win. I can understand that complaint, I kind of wish there was a least a game mode where one side was the ‘attacker’ and the other the ‘defender’, similar to counter-strike. As technically, and especially on some maps, the side with the most patience to sit in their defensive position will be the winner. Forcing one team to be the aggressor might help fix that, might not. People still camped in CS as well. Having the draw award almost no experience / money does sort of help push people towards doing something as is.

I would also love to see some ‘hardcore’ modes like they do for L4D2, where they remove a lot of the helper visual info. I think it would be neat if they didn’t display all the tanks in the GUI, didn’t display the health of enemy tanks, didn’t announce kills, etc. Maybe even lose the red outline around a target – though that would greatly change mechanics, as you couldn’t hit anything while in a shrub.

Yes, it’s a slower, less maneuverable Tiger 2 with less armor. Let’s call it “not clearly inferior”. :)

And let’s not even match it up against the IS-3.

Although I do agree that my judgement of the Lowe is a bit skewed, since I judge them by the performance demonstrated in battles and performance depends a lot on who is driving the tank. On average, Lowe drivers lack experience in driving heavy tanks and this affects the perception.

I did see some very good Lowe drivers though and it’s hopefully only a matter of time when the average skill levels out.

Although I wouldn’t call it “miles away from the KV-5” either. KV-5’s gun has 20 mm less penetration and 20 less damage but higher RoF and the tank is a bitch to kill, much harder than Lowe.

Psychologically, in my IS-4 or Ferdi, I am more uncomfortable encountering the KV-5 than Lowe because I know it’s going to take longer to kill it.

For comparison, a dozen good shots will gain about 60K for the Ferdinand, maybe a bit more, if you damage worthy enemies. Ammo costs the same but repairs cost around 10K.

Of course, there is nothing scientific in our comparison but it kind of confirms the feeling I had that the Lowe earns about 30% more than the best (IMO) tier 8 earner.

between those two, hands-down it’s the Pv IV. I think my favority tier V is the KV, followed by the Pz IV. the t-34 I kinda hated. Once upgraded, the KV can damage just about anything the game throws at you and the Pz IV isnt too far behind - however the t-34 doesn’t have great guns to choose from and will be challenged by even some heavy Tier V armor and certainly can’t fight effectively beyond Tier 7.

Heh, I consider the IS-3 to be the least strong tier 8 so it’s obious we disagree on that part, wich is cool because there are so many ways to drive a tank and while none of them fit all situations, they all colour our perceptions of tanks.

I completely agree about the people making a mess of the löwe, moreso than other tanks they fail to realise the difference between supporting a push and sitting at maps edge sniping, they don’t understand that the only armor of note is the frontal and that they need to pick a line and push it, not wait until the rest of the team is dead and then start moving up solo.

On the KV5, I dunno, that gun lost it’s appeal to me on the KV-3 and that’s tier 6. 167 average penetration vs the löwes 234.

I wholeheartedly agree with you and I did mention in my post that “only one game mode” is a very valid concern.

However, what you are describing is not a “no incentive to win” concern, it’s a “no incentive to attack” one. I would even probably call it an “incentive to be more aggressive”. Like you said, it would stir up the matches a little bit and add variety, which is always good for a game. But it won’t completely cure camping, it’s just human nature.

However, as is the game DOES promote aggressiveness. Not even the game really but the military science.

Everything else being equal, conflict’s outcome is determined by the concentration of forces attackers and defenders have in a certain area. Attackers (again, everything else being equal) have an advantage, because Defenders have to spread out their forces across the entire front (since they don’t know where to expect the attack) and at the same time, Attackers can concentrate their forces at the exact point where they need it. It was all very nicely demonstrated by the Germans against France in 1940 and against USSR in 1941-42.

In game’s terms, on most maps, a coordinated attack will always (ok, on average :)) win over a camping team. There are lots of examples - push through the field on Malinovka, through the valley in Lakeville, through the middle on Steppes, etc. Pushes like that, if well timed and coordinated (and of course, if the execution is not fucked up), have very high probablity of winning and I’ve seen gazillion of them winning in both Random and Clan matches. That’s just numbers - 15 tanks will always kill 5, then 5 more then the remaining 5.

The problem in Random matches is, of course, with coordination. Most people don’t want to lead anything, some people don’t want to be led, some don’t read chat, some disagree with a plan, some think “yeah you push and I will snipe from behind”… There are dozens of reasons why people don’t get organized most of the time and really majority of these reasons cannot be addressed by some magic game design decision. It’s just human nature.

Even if (actually, it’s a “when”, since the devs confirmed this mode is coming) the game designates one team as an attacker and another as a defender, guess what will happen most of the time in random matches? If there are 3 directions for attack, the attacking team will split more or less evenly between all 3, even if it doesn’t make sense tactically. And the output will again be pretty much random - how defenders spread, lucky arty shots, unlucky bounces at critical times, etc.

That’s just the nature of games like this. :)

Eeew, yeah, you are right, I looked at the wrong numbers. 167 does suck comparing to 234. It’s still pretty effective even against tier 8, if you aim it properly but yeah, no comparison.

Still I hate having to kill those KV-5’s.

but then luck is a huge thing in any fight wether a mano a mano ring fight or huge schale strategic warfare, so i do not see that as a bad thing.

Yeah me neither. I didn’t mean to mention luck as a bad thing. I just wanted to say that when you pit 15 “average” people against pretty much the same 15 “average” people, where no team is more organized than another and has no other advantages, the output is pretty much random and over time will be approaching 50/50.

Strider, what do you think about making credits on the Ferdi with only the 10.5? (Don’t have the 60k for the gun yet.) Possibility or total waste of time?

The 105 gun is very good but it suffers from one thing - the cost of shells. It’s the gun where the cost makes a huge 400% jump from the previous gun (the long 88) - IIRC from 250 to 1000 credits. At the same time, penetration remains pretty much the same (203 vs 200) and the damage increases by about 50% (220 vs 320). This means that you have to be careful what you shoot at as every miss will severely impact the profit.

Performance-wise, 105 is a great gun, IMO it doesn’t make sense to stay with the 88 but, money-wise, 105 is not that good in generating profit. It’s not that bad either - on average, I would say it’s on par with “regular” tanks of the same tier, which means it will make profit but it’s not a credit farming machine. But you have to be very careful and don’t miss/bounce/not penetrate much.

The 128 gun, comparing to the 88, has 25% more penetration (246), 130% more damage (490) but its shells cost about the same as for 105 - about 1000. This makes it a great money making machine - you penetrate more reliably (means more damage, means more money) and misses do not affect the bottom line that drastically.

anyone else had any experience with ‘ghost shots’? Alot of my shots last night just simply disappeared - no audio cue, no visible impact. I’m not sure if its attributable to lag or something else. i generally don’t see it that much, but last night it was just absurd - In one case I had a full frontal shot at a panzer IV with my IS, i let the reticle contract fully and shot and…nothing. The tank was moving towards me and it was completely within the reticle…

There is a tiny tiny chance the shot can fall outside your reticle. I have had this happen to me very once in a while; more often I have shots fire in unexpected directions due to lag, i.e. I am turning my turret, bring the target under my reticle, shoot, and the shot flies off in the direction my turret was pointed 1.5s before… it is rare though.

In beta there was a problem with shots occasionally clipping right thorugh the target. Not sure if that has happened since though.

2.5% chance IIRC.

Also make sure you don’t hit any obstacles like staircases or dead tanks.

BTW, if you think you might be experiencing some lag, it’s easy to verify by enabling the server-side reticle. You will see whether the server-side reticle lags a lot behind your regular one.

The funny thing is that I haven’t used it for so long, I completely forgot how to enable it. CapsLock and something. I am sure someone will help me out here.

Oh and no, I haven’t noticed any “ghost shots” yesterday. I played for about an hour.

I really enjoyed the T-34 in beta, but found it rather frustrating in release – it is quite fragile compared to other mediums in its tier. Not quite sure why the discrepancy, it was one of my favorite tanks in beta.

However, IMO it’s a mistake to focus on the difference between the Pz IV and T-34 when making a decision on which tank to go with. The two lines they represent – Russian Mediums vs. German Heavies – are entirely different and diverge very rapidly at Tier VI and particularly by Tier VII (Tiger I vs. T-43). You really want to make a decision based on where you want to get to, not based on the individual tanks.

The question to ask is do you like being tough but slow or fast and agile with a weaker gun and less health. If you like playing a nimble tank that can move quickly across the battlefield then the Panzer IV is the wrong choice, regardless of its individual merits.

CapsLock + 0 (zero)

Yowza!

I’m just moving the same two sets of binoculars between my tanks as I play them!

I’ve got one camo net and that’s it. But I’ve only just made Tier 5.

Yes I’ve had this happen a lot lately like 5-6 times in a 2 hour play session. Last night in my Tiger-1 with the L88 (.3 accuracy) I had 2 ghost shots in a row, both times my aiming circle was fully collapsed on the center-side of a KV-2 at close range, there should be no way to miss. I don’t believe I was experiencing lag but I’ll check out the server-side reticle just in case.