I kind of agree that the way they’ve implemented artillery isn’t realistic; the bird’s-eye view of the map is pretty gamey. I think though it’s a reasonable compromise because any realistic use of artillery would, well, make it pretty impossible to use artillery (which generally didn’t affect armored engagements much, except in relatively rare situations where massed armor met massed heavy arty mustered for a desperate defense, as in Sicily).
But really, you can get one-shotted by a tank or TD that you can’t see just as easily as you can be one-shotted by arty–actually, more easily because there are a lot more heavy high tier vehicles out there that can one shot you than there are high tier arties.
I guess we’ll just disagree, which is cool. Personally, if I’m hit by arty as I’m moving I figure it’s either a skilled shooter, and I’m willing to sing his/her praises, or I wasn’t moving tactically, in which case it’s my own damn fault.
Arty seeing tracers is too powerful. Even back in beta they said they would eventually remove tracer sight from arty view. It’s important to give scouts a role, and arty should only be able to see things if they have a teammate in radio range.
Arty hitting a moving target requires a high degree of prediction, skill, and luck. I mean keep in mind it’s not unusually for a fully zeroed in shot to have less than 50% chance to hit due to aiming circle size. To tag someone on the move with a 4 second shot travel time is worthy of respect. Use cover, change your heading and speed, etc. when you think you may be bracketed by arty.
Dejin
3703
The problem is you can’t even see incoming shells outside of artillery view at least as far as I can tell. As regular non-artillery tanks, we used to be able to get some sense of where artillery was firing from and either direct our artillery there or head there on our own – for example: “artillery is firing from somewhere on the far side of the Railroad tracks” or “they are somewhere in the North-East corner.” Now artillery could be anywhere and all you know is that you’re team is getting plastered.
Maybe some compromise is possible, but given a binary choice, I’d have to say arty tracers are necessary to allow any hope of counterbattery. Relying on scouts sounds good, but most of the time if a scout gets to the enemy arty they’re either killed too fast for you to zero in, or if they’re the vanguard of a ground force the arty is killed before you can counter it.
Historically, of course, you had sound detection and flash detection and other ways of figuring out where enemy shells were coming from, and you did counter-battery fire that way. You certainly didn’t have spotters deep in enemy territory eyeballing the enemy artillery, except in exceedingly rare situations. What the game is trying to do I guess is replicate that ability to trace back arty fire to its source (today they use radars and stuff like that).
Maybe have persistent but decaying markers that show up on the minimap whenever an arty fires from a sector. At least then you’d know which grid square it came from. Dunno. But if you don’t give arty a chance to counter, they’ll spend all their time shooting tanks :).
Riztro
3705
Arty tracers always on, non-arty tracers off on birds eye maybe?
Simple, elegant, covers all the bases. Yes.
JoshV
3707
Slightly off topic:
http://www.mishalov.com/littlefield-6jan07/
This was posted in EE a while back, but its fun to look at it now that I’ve been playing WoT and actually identify all the tanks.
Cool stuff. I’ve always wanted a tank museum of my own, but…
In the game, I finally unlocked my ISU-152, though it broke the bank buying it. Now all I have to do is grind my way to the BL9…
Just to formalize a bit (and to explain why the wooded path on Prokhorovka is an “unusual situation”), the “Fire and Movement” tactic only works when there is an at least partially concealed approach AND when your team can suppress the enemy (i.e. force them to hide behind a hard cover like a corner or a rock). None of these is true for the wooded path on Prokhorovka, so generally speaking it is a very bad idea to attack there. The enemies just stay hidden (provided they are positioned correctly) and can shoot your scouts non stop.
The only kind of attack that works there is to create an overwhelming advantage in quantity and quality of your force there and attack in mass while being supported by high accuracy vehicles and arty from behind. In random matches it’s very hard to pull off as it involves a lot of coordination and proper positioning. That’s why I pretty much never attack there.
On most maps, there are good directions for attacks and directions that are easy to defend. For example, in Prokhorovka, the wooded side is easier to defend with a lesser force and the “village side” is easier to attack. Good teams will leave “just enough” forces to defend where it’s easier and apply majority of its force to the attacking direction. The idea is to delay (or destroy) the enemy on the “defensive” side with minimum forces while doing an aggressive offensive push on the other side.
The problem is that defending is perceived to be an easier and less stressful activity, especially if it’s a good defensive position. That’s why, in random fights, you often see the majority of your team go to the forested side on Prokhorovka or the rocky side on Steepes or the valley in Lakeville (or Cliff). Often you can tell whether your team is going to lose from the first 30 seconds of the match. Although, the enemy team is full of the same kind of players and, with any luck, they have the same or greater number of idiots and then all predictions are off. :)
As for the arty, IMO the game absolutely needs it. The key is in the numbers - when there is no arty or when there is too much arty (4 on each side) the game becomes a camping fest and is more likely to end as a draw. But according to the devs, they don’t want to restrict the matchmaker to certain optimal team-making templates (like 1-2 high tier HT’s, 2 arty, 2-3 mid tier HT’s, 1-2 scouts and the rest mediums), they want to have some weird ass makeups pop up from time to time, like 5 arties on a team or no heavies teams or 80% TD’s teams. Personally, I think it’s a good idea as it introduces variety and forces players to employ different tactics for different team layouts.
I love it when you get like a dozen arties in a game, or nine Lowes, both situations I’ve actually seen. It’s odd, it’s frustrating, and it’s wacky, so therefore I find it interesting. It’s what, fifteen minutes of your life, max? Some people in chat seem to be demanding nothing but matches where every tank is basically identical, and they all meet in the middle of a flat plain and slug it out. How boring. I mean, I even get yelled at by opposing players, complete with obscenities, when I simply shoot them in a standard TD ambush. It’s as if, by hiding and waiting for them to expose themselves, I’m somehow cheating or being cheap. Weird.
Dave47
3711
In any given WoT match there are some people who are grinding through a terrible stock tank, trying to earn enough XP to unlock the treds to mount the gear to make the tank good. You can argue that these people should chill and enjoy the ride, but I have a lot of sympathy for them: It can be frustrating to enter a match at such a handicap. There are also players with upgraded tanks trying to grind the XP for their next tank. Personally, I feel these people should chill a little, but if it’s your first battle of the day the desire is strong to win the victory bonus.
These players will have their tank of choice locked into a match for 15 minutes if it generates into a camping scenario that leads to a draw. Personally, one of my favorite games ever was a draw where I died at around the 9 minute mark, and watched to the end. But I sympathize with the people who just wants to get a few good games in quickly.
This, by the way, can serve as yet another reason WoT would be better if it wasn’t a Freemium MMO. There are so many weird incentives when half the players are obviously in a “grind at maximum efficiency” mindset.
While I sympathize with folks who want to get that win/grind those points, I mean, really; there’s no need to go ballistic at everything that doesn’t further their goal. Especially considering that most of the time they get killed from their own errors. And nothing excuses yelling obscenities at players who are simply playing the game–you know, shooting at your tank. But yeah, it’s a structure that encourages nerdrage because of stuff like the initial doubling of xp each day and the horrible grind for parts for stock tanks.
pyrhic
3713
I’m not sure if my skin’s thicker because i regularly play with some of the most vocally abusive people i’ve ever encountered, or because I’ve played L4D and it’s offspring for hundreds, if not thousands of hours, but this game’s player base is one of the tamer mp player bases out there.
…Or maybe it’s just because I’m one of the wolves…
Jimmy: This is serious, Dave. She’s out there all alone, prey to all the wolves that haunt the mean streets of New York City.
Dave: Sir, Beth is one of the wolves that haunt the mean streets of New York City.
Talorc
3714
Well, I unlocked the T-34 last night, so my collection of unlocked Tier 5 (but not yet purchased vehicles) consists of Pz IV, StuG III and now T-34.
I am suffering from commitment phobia though, because I think I want to unlock the KV first. So I am playing the T-28 at the moment, which is suprisingly fun so far. The tank itself seems quite robust and the early 57mm zis8 is acceptable. Almost unlocked the better 57mm, I dont really like the short barreled/inaccurate howizter style guns so will leave the 76mm alone.
The thing must be an absolute beast with the 85mm F-30 unlocked - Tier 6 gun on a Tier 4 chassis basically. Its not necessary to unlock to get the KV, but I think I will anyway for maximum carnage. (it is the stock gun for the KV-3!)
Next one after KV for Tier 5 will probably be the StuG III. They look mean and nasty.
JoshV
3715
I have all of those but the T-34. You can’t make a wrong choice really, all fun. (Except the Stug III, i hated it. – but your mileage may vary.)
The T-28 with the top gun is one of my fave tanks. I’ve kept one in my garage permanently. You also can’t go wrong with the T-34, PzIV or KV. They are all brilliant fun at their tier when maxed out.
I actually loved the StuG in beta. With the 10,5cm mini-derp it’s a hoot.
the long 7cm gun is mean and fast firing. i love the stug. its better than the vehicle thats supposed to replace it the tier6 jagdpanzer 4.
kedaha
3719
I hate facing JgPzIVs because of their teeny profile and sloped frontal armour. Stugs hurt like hell, but i can damage them back - same can’t be said about it’s successor :)
The short 88 is a curse on all German tier 6. I’m not convinced it’s not worse than the long 75 which was excellent at tier 5.
