5361

I have either the Enhanced Gun Laying Drive or the Vertical Stabilizer on all my tanks, always. I couldn’t even imagine using the French/Russian guns without them.

Assuming the Lorraine can mount the Vertical Stabilizer, I intend to mount it AND the Enhanced Gun Laying Drive on the tank. I’m expecting that to help even further with aim time. But it would have been nice it aimed faster inherently.

5362

You can check the stats of every tank and gun in the game from within the game itself, so when Thorn mentioned that he just realized that at some point they’d chopped around 100 front armor off his IS-4 since the last time he used it regularly I went around looking at the armor values of the top tier tanks. Does anyone else think it is extremely hilarious that the tier 10 French heavy has 100/30/30 armor?

5363

I think that’s how my Lorraine was fitted, and I never experienced any aiming issues at all. Same accuracy on it as my Patton and E50 (mid 80s). That said, I threw Optics on my Bat Chatillion instead of the GLD because I might be called on to drive it in Clan Wars.

5364

Those stats aren’t always reflective of what takes place in the game. I’ve long ago learned my lesson to never trust paper stats until I’ve had a feeling for the vehicle by actually driving it. You can’t even trust armor stats (see M36 Slugger supposed front armor).

Not really. But I’ve never been one to rely on armor. As long as a tank has the mobility, good gun depression/elevation, fast aim time and good firepower, it’s all I need. It’s why I loved the Patton so much, and kept hoping the French lights/meds were more of the same, only trading protection completely for more firepower/mobility. So far it hadn’t turned out that way, but …

… this certainly gives me hope!

5365

Wow, just played my first game on the Lorraine 40t.

Vertical Stabilizer, Gun Laying Drive and Coated Optics (don’t have enough weight for Binoculars yet). Compared with the AMX13-90, the difference in aim time is night and day. You were right, CaldeDan.

Moreover, I already had the second 90mm gun unlocked via the ARL44, so by switching from the AMX13-90 to Lorraine, you’re going from 160 to a whopping 212mm penetration. You also have way more ammo reserves (important, as I ran out on the AMX from time to time) and the drum reloads much faster.

Better yet, the AMX13-75/90, being light tanks and classified as scouts, are placed in far, far higher tiered battles than a tier 8 medium like Lorraine. So you’re not only gaining more combat power by moving up a tier, but paradoxically you’re also gaining better matchmaking.

Consequently, I never want to go back to that slow-aiming, turret-at-the-back contraption, that finds itself in games with multiple Mauses, T110E5s or E-110s per side, the AMX13-90, so I sold it.

5366

Gratz on the Lorraine.

I would have thought the Coated Optics was the way to go on a Lorraine, not the Binoculars. Personally I go with Binoculars on tanks that will act as snipers (although some of the TDs have such crappy visual ranges, it might not be worth it, and I wonder if I should just depend on spots from other people’s tanks), and then put Coated Optics on tanks that are likely to be moving a lot.

5367

Very true, another great example is the US’s 105mm derp which is way more accurate then the stats let on.

5368

The stats for guns don’t tell a really important metric - shell velocity. As it was explained to me, the shell velocity on the Patton’s 105mm gun, for example, is ~25% greater than normal, which explains its remarkable accuracy even with a stated 0.37 rating. Russian (low velocity) guns with the same accuracy rating don’t hit nearly as well.

I always struggle with this decision. There are situations when seeing further on the move is advantageous, but then there are often times where I would have killed to have binoculars instead. If we had more equipment slots I’d just take both.

On the Lorraine though there’s an additional complication. Reading the patch notes for 7.2 reveals that they increased dispersion from movement by 5% for the first suspension and 15% for the second. I really like the current dispersion/aim time, but would need the second suspension to mount any other piece of equipment than Optics.

The decision will probably be made for me when I want to try the 100mm gun on the Lorraine, which will require a suspension upgrade (since it’s heavier).

5369

Dang, I didn’t realize that the different suspensions had this effect. Are these numbers documented anywhere?

5370

A few individuals on the official (NA) forum mention hard numbers from time to time, so they pull them out of … somewhere. I only saw it mentioned as a percentage change in the patch notes though.

I got curious (since I only returned to the game after 7.2) after all the whining about the nerfs to French tanks on the forums, and sure enough, the French tanks almost universally saw a ton of nerfs (and buffs in some cases) in that patch.

5371

What does dispersion mean?

5372

I assume it’s referring to dispersion of shots. In other words how closely the shots fall to the target point.

5373

All my self-propelled guns and tank destroyers are equipped with Binocular Telescopes and Camouflage Nets. All my scouts have those two items as well as Coated Optics. As a matter of fact, I have Camouflage Nets on all my vehicles (there are 51 in my garage at this time) except one. But basically the type of equipment to install on a particular vehicle depends on whether it will be spending most of its time moving or being stationary.

Hopefully the new Skills and Perks will greatly enhance crew performance and abilities. I recently gave the perk Sixth Sense to an artillery Commander but haven’t seen it activate in a battle yet.

5374

Perks come into effect when they’re at 100%. Skills raise in effectiveness as their number increases. One can work the system by raising a skill up to 100% then resetting it into a perk (e.g. Camo to Sixth Sense) and starting over again with the skill.

Oh, I almost forgot. There are a lot of good articles about gameplay and gameplay mechanics at blackrabbit’s.

5375

It doesn’t necessarily mean that dispersion is worse with the second suspension, only that it used to be much better. :) I really don’t see any problems with dispersion from movement on Lorraine’s second suspension.

5376

The Net helps a bit when you just start playing but once you become familiar with the game and how the bushes work, the Net is arguably one of the least useful pieces of equipment. There are very few situations and tanks where it really helps.

If you park in the middle of nowhere, you will be spotted regardless of the net. If you park properly in the bush and shoot at enemies, you will spotted regardless of the net. If you park properly behind two bushes and shoot, you won’t be spotted regardless of the net but you rely on others for spotting.

One application where the net is definitely useful is passive scouting but that’s about it. And maybe arty (I don’t play it) but with all the required anti-arty movements it’s probably worthless as well. I would almost always recommend to substitute it for something else.

5377

Except for crew skills and perks, it doesn’t make any difference whether someone has been playing World of Tanks for a day or a year, a Camouflage Net is equally useful. According to World of Tanks Wiki, a Camouflage Net provides “+25% to the tank’s camouflage factor when the tank hull is stationary for 3 seconds.”

Of course, if a vehicle is going to be constantly moving a Camouflage Net is useless. But since a tank destroyer, self-propelled gun, or passive scout depends on remaining hidden in order to survive as long as possible, the +25% to its camouflage factor could very well be the deciding factor in its survival. The same principle is true for a tank down to 5% health that is attempting to become as invisible as it can.

5378

I upgraded the suspension last night, and haven’t seen much of a difference either, seeing as I took out an S-51 from about 100 meters away in two consecutive shots while moving at ~55kph.

But I did feel a huge difference (perhaps only perceived) in passability and maneuverability. So I’m keeping it. Especially since the 100mm gun requires it.

5379

That Wiki is pretty cool, but the spreadsheets in Google.docs that it links to are kinda wonky for me–none of the actual data you’d need to test stuff is visible, and it won’t let you input anything (at least I can’t). It would be nice to fiddle around with that stuff somehow.

5380

Hehe, I didn’t mean it like the net’s bonus gets smaller as you have more games under your belt :) It’s just more difficult to get into a Jagdtiger after playing for a day than after playing for a year. :)

When you are starting to play, you are driving smaller tanks (better base camo) and your enemies have smaller view range and most likely no binocs.

Then you played for awhile and you are sitting in a huge ass 3 meters tall Jagdpanther and fully skilled and equipped enemy Pattons can see you from much father away.

According to World of Tanks Wiki, a Camouflage Net provides “+25% to the tank’s camouflage factor when the tank hull is stationary for 3 seconds.”

Of course, if a vehicle is going to be constantly moving a Camouflage Net is useless. But since a tank destroyer, self-propelled gun, or passive scout depends on remaining hidden in order to survive as long as possible, the +25% to its camouflage factor could very well be the deciding factor in its survival. The same principle is true for a tank down to 5% health that is attempting to become as invisible as it can.

Now, that page you linked to has a link to a table. Look at it, set “Shooting” to True and play with the “Camo Net?” value. Having the net on Ferdi, gives you extra 4 meters of “hiding range”. On ISU or JagdPanther, it’s 6 meters. That’s less than the tank’s length.

That’s the beauty of WoT descriptions, where most of the time things are much different in reality than what’s in the tooltip.

Now set the “Regular bush within 15 m” to 1, leave “Shooting” at False. And play with the net. Most low level TD’s are not visible until 50 meters REGARDLESS of the net. 50 meters is when the x-ray vision kicks in. For higher level TD’s, the net adds about 20 meters but, really, if you let the enemy to get within 75 meters of you without shooting at him, you have bigger problems than the extra 20 meters can solve. And the moment you start shooting, they see you regardless of the net.

Set the “Regular bush outside of 15 m” to 1 (so you are behind two bushes), set Shooting to True - again all the net gives you is 2-4 meters.

And I mentioned passive scouting and arty as being the best usage of the net. That’s because they don’t shoot when the enemies are around. And when they do, they usually die.

Of course, there are extremely rare situations when a net can be useful on a TD or, God forbid, a heavy tank but 99% of the time the only thing it provides is a false sense of security.

[edit] To add some pratical advice to all the theorycraft above, if, in a TD (or any other tank really), you want to shoot at enemies without them shooting back at you, never just park in a bush. Use double bush (the farther bush should be beyond 15 meters from you) or, better yet, use hard cover, like rocks and buildings, hide there when reloading, pop out for a quick shot and then hide again. Having a bush right beside a rock is great, it allows you to sit there and wait for them but once you shoot, always assume they see you and hide behind a rock. Arty especially loves TDs who think no one can see them in a bush.

Oh and remember that you can’t see anyone from behind a double bush either, never use them when there is no one to spot for you.