5501

Right, I’m still trying to figure out how to play the IS. I’m now much more likely to close than with my German/American tanks because I just can’t hit stuff at long range. So do you tend to play IS’s close in then? How close do you get, do you go straight toe-to-toe as close as you can get?

5502

It’s a short/medium range brawler. Imagine you have a HUGE baseball bat (the 122mm), step out from behind hard cover, SMASH someone with the bat (maybe taking a hit to your armour) and then step back into cover and reload.

You should be pretty close, so advance from cover to cover, ideally with support. In a pinch your mobility is pretty good, so you can seek out flanking opportunities.

5503

What Talorc says. The IS-4 and IS-7 play fairly similarly, though the IS-8 is fast enough to be used more flexibly. None of the Russian guns are good long range snipers; you have to get relatively close.

5504

I think I fell in love with the VK 3002 (DB). At first I didn’t like it - its not quick off the mark and I had been playing the Easy 8 a lot, so I was charging around trying to get in circle strafing fights. Which it loses, badly.

After I remembered it is actually a sniper box and to keep my distance - just had a 7 kill match (equal best for me), Boelter’s Medal and Ace Mastery :-) Panther is unlocked now, but might roll this for a while :-) 63% win rate after 38 battles, interesting to see how long it lasts!

Not sure how much dumb luck /law of averages plays into it with individual tank win/loss ratios. My M-10 Wolverine has a ratio of 62% after 93 battles (109 kills), but I remember ever noticing that it was particularly lucky or win worthy. Compared to 1000’s of battles, probably not enough to be significant.

5505

Use the 100mm to unlock both 122s, then switch to the top gun. It’s a very different experience, but it’s what makes the tank IMO. You will shoot far slower but do massive alpha damage when you shoot, so you want to use cover while you reload. Its aim is poor so always always take your time on shots to make the aiming reticule as small as it goes. It’s fine to snipe with as long as you do this. You have poor armour for your tier, but good mobility + the enforced long reload time of the 122 means you work best popping in and out of hard cover, a tactic which will win you many fights.

5506

I had a similar experience with the DB…hated it at first, then loved it. Going up to the Panther was a huge letdown initially.

5507

I dont really see much of a difference anymore between the 3002db and the panther. which sucks. i refuse to take the loooooooong 75 on my panther because it looks too silly. i cant stand that shit. also yeah it penetrates, but then what? like 2% off a tanks hp pool? whoop de fucking doo! I prefer the short 88 to that, and playing it like a proper medium tank.

5508

I liked the L100, because it’s the best sniping gun until the 88L100 on the E-50. Yeah, it’s damage is low but you can work the flanks with it. On the Panther II, the long 88 makes a nice gun, but the short 88 I loathed. Different strokes, etc.

5509

Welp, unlocked the AMX50B tonight (tier 10 French heavy). The tier 9 AMX50-120 was a great tank, even after the nerf (but then I never experienced the French tanks pre-nerf).

The 50B, however, costs 6.5 million credits. I only have 4 million in the bank after selling the 50-120. With Diablo 3 out, I have no heart to grind out the necessary funds.

I never got to have a tier 10 in beta (largely because no tier 10 Tank Destroyers or Mediums exist, and I had my fill of heavies with the IS4, King Tiger and T32), and looks like I won’t in release either, at least for now.

Yes, I know the money grind is easily alleviated through the purchase of a premium tank, but, well, they just really … suck! The Lowe is so slow I’d blow my brains out, the Type 59 is terrible compared to a real medium tank, and the lower tier premiums are either really slow or have really crappy guns, or both.

Whenever they inevitably draw me back in, again (this time it was the Hellcat and Frenchies), with the release of the British line, it will be time to money grind with good old T-20 and the Hellcat. They’re not the Lowe, but they do earn quite nicely.

P.S.
After having the opportunity to first hand compare all the tier 9 mediums currently in the game, I do not agree with the popular opinion that the Bat Chatelion is the best of them or even overpowered, really. It has one massive weakness which absolutely drove me insane: ammo load. With only 30 shells for its 100mm gun, it is ridiculously reliant on the team.

In another tier 9 medium you can continually influence the battle throughout, but an empty BatChat is a glorified scout - it can’t even ram very well. That means if your teammates have not been doing well, or can’t pull their own weight, you can’t compensate for that, as you can in another tank with a decent ammo load. No late-fight comebacks here - not unless you play too conservatively in early/mid battle.

Even the long aim times for French guns (which, by the way, are better on the AMX50-120 with the 120mm gun), and the terrible gun depression, are not enough to keep the BatChat from the top tier 9 medium spot. But I never realized, until I got it, how limiting its low ammo count actually is.

So what is the best tier 9 medium, you say? Give you a hint, it’s my most played tank. :)
Bring on the British mediums, Wargaming!

5510

That just crazy! I’ve been grinding for quite a while and only have 2 million in my warchest. I can’t imagine how long it would take to earn 6.5 million.

5511

I didn’t realize it until I started playing it, but the IS seems to have a relatively poor view range. I’m getting plastered by tanks and I have no idea where they are. While that does happen occasionally in my other tanks, it seems to be happening a lot in the IS.

5512

I have three Tier X heavies–the T110E5, the IS-7, and the IS-4. I have little desire to have an E-100, though I am reasonably close to it on my E-75. I never went down the Maus line, and my AMX 50 100 is a ways away from the top of the French line. All of the X heavies are 6+ million credits, and yeah, it sucks to grind that much out. OTOH, the T110E5 is the current “best in show” as far as I can tell, based on both its performance (fast, maneuverable, durable, hits reasonably hard) and it’s prevalence in Clan battles. The IS-4 is a cool tank, which seems more durable than the IS-7 in exchange for less alpha on the gun (but faster ROF at least). The IS-7 is a good all-round heavy, which with decent luck gets you bounces a lot. But there is really zero reason IMO to run Tier X heavies outside of Clan Wars, bar the occasional foray for crew improvement on doubles. They are expensive, and the matches you get into vary from really nicely balanced high-tier slugfests to horrid “hide from the rain of death” arty slaughterhouses.

I prefer the Tier IX TDs; I only have the T95 and the Object 704, but both are a hoot to play, for different reasons. And most of all I like arty, but the T92 is prohibitively expensive to run outside of CW, so I’m keeping my GW Panther around for lower tier fun as I grind to the Type E and on the Soviet side the Object 261. Why, I am not sure, but I do like arty.

I have had the Patton unlocked for ages, but I haven’t wanted to 1) spend the nearly three million to buy it, and 2) spend the gold to convert the nearly 175k experience necessary to fully upgrade it. An un-upgraded Tier IX medium is a sad, sad thing–my E-50 was a dog before I got it kitted out (now it’s great, and I think a match for the Bat.Chat in many cases). I’m almost at the T-54 but again, without upgrades it’s crappy.

I do think the Type 59 is actually a very good Tier VIII medium; properly handled, with good modules, it’s as good as my T-44 or M26 or Panther II in most respects, better in others. And considering your Chinese crews never get transferred, most long-time Type crews are very skilled, which makes a difference. So many people play them as throwaway tanks though (because they make money no matter what) that it’s easy to see them as crap, but I really think they’re decent. Never played the Lowe or KV-5, but the T34 is by far my favorite tank, bar none. It hits hard, it is reasonably durable if you protect your hull, and as my crew is probably my highest trained crew of any of my tanks, it functions very well. It also makes money hand over fist.

5513

My fully kitted Pershing bounces shots on Type 59s all the time. So did my T-54 until I finally unlocked the top gun. From what I can tell the Type 59 is a very tough nut with good speed and manueverability. I’m not sure how good the gun is, though none of the Tier VIII mediums I’ve played Pershing, T-44, and Panther II have particularly impressive guns.

5514

When people call the Bat Chat the “best” tier 9 medium they probably mean Clan Wars, where it is a great scout tank that rivals the T-54. No one uses Pattons or E-50s in clan battles.

In random matches, the Patton’s great gun and turret depression allow it to do really crazy well in certain map positions, which you no doubt already know. :) It was my first tier 9 medium, and after 250 games it still has 65% wins, how can I not love it?

Get a Type 59 if you’re having credit woes, it’s only a smidgen worse than the other tier VIII mediums and it prints credits really quickly. Just keep your right side away from enemy fire, and don’t try to circle against all but the slowest traverse turrets.

5515

Yeah, the gun on the Type is…ok. The Pershing’s top 90 is actually pretty good all-round, and the long 88 on the Panther II has potential; the 100 on the 44 is meh, IMO.

5516

Sorry, man, but this is just crazy talk. 30 shells is a lot. With 300 average damage per shell you are looking at 9000 damage per match in the game where 4000 is considered very good. 9000 damage is enough to kill 4 100% E-75s and have some leftover for ricochets and stuff. Or 6-7 Types. :) That E-75, for example, is lucky to shoot 15 times and its average damage is pretty much the same - 320.

If a BatChat shoots his 30 shells and actually hits with them, as opposed to just wasting them, there is no need for a late-fight comeback, there will be no late fight. And if THAT wasn’t enough for the team to win, you’d need to drive 2 tanks to win with that team. :)

For me, I don’t even remember if I ever shot more than 30 shells in a match, although I don’t have the BatChat, still driving the Lorraine.

Just play like every shot counts. It actually does, especially on the French tanks.

However, I still agree that the Patton is a better tank overall than the Batchat in random matches. :)

5517

Yeah all my opinions are based on public games. Between the beta and release I’ve now 13k battles under my belt without ever platooning or being in a Clan (no desire or time for it). Heh, I’ve actually gotten accused of hacking last week because “no pubbie (ahem) can be that high”. Apparently the XVM mod thingy told him I was “purple” at 2000+ efficiency and a unicorn or something.

That was actually kind of insulting, as it implies that people cannot develop good skill and tactics in public matches. I’m sure as it’s been mentioned here the tanks used in Clan Wars and company battles are different, but if you can think tactically, hit tanks in the right spots and position yourself correctly, that should translate to Clan Wars as well. Or maybe I don’t know what I’m talking about, because Clan Wars is a different world, and should shut up.

Heh, I thought the same when I still drove the Lorraine (which I loved, by the way).

The thing about the Bat, as you’ll discover, is that it is SO fast and SO maneuverable and SO tiny that you can do amazing things with it, from the very start of the battle. You can get in a proper position to unload 6 shells into the side of an E-75 or T110 in the first few minutes. Then reload in a mere 40 seconds and do that again. And after you’ve done that just 5 times, you’re empty.

Suddenly you realize that you can totally kill 5 tier 9 tanks all by yourself, and then what? Now the team has to pick up the slack. Not all teams are good teams.

You can finish off wounded tanks (you’ll do that a lot, as you already do on the Lorraine), but that requires a team that actually gets some tanks wounded. Not all teams are capable of even tying their own shoes.

Even though it doesn’t SEEM like 30 shots should be a limitation, once you play the tank and see what it can do (what no other medium can do, in terms of movement, position and the ability to relocate), you realize that the only way to not continually run out of shells (doing damage, not wasting them) is to play conservatively and thus under-utilize the tank.

There’s also the matter of bounces, ricochets or just wild misses. Nothing is more frustrating than bouncing off the side of an E75 that is at 11% with the last shell in your drum, or getting a ricochet on an Object 261 when you’re on your last handful of shells.

I’ve had games where, after taking out 3-4 tanks and severely damaging a few more, I had to go and finish off the enemy artillery with literally 2-3 shells left on the 100mm. I’ve had to literally beg some retarded heavies to advance because I was down to my last drum of 6 shots. I had to beg artillery to stop trying to counter-battery all game for zero kills and zero damage and actually shoot the tanks I was spotting for it while reloading.

The Lorraine is different from the Bat in play style. It is a sniper that cannot afford to take the risks a Bat easily gets away with. With the Lorraine you can take every shot of opportunity to deal damage, and it’s got plenty of ammo for that. One never has to shoot conservatively (but one always has to play conservatively, what with driving a giant barn on tracks that utterly lacks any kind of armor).

Public teams are sometimes infuriatingly frustrating (and I don’t have the time or desire for Clan stuff) but the BatChat has to rely on them regardless.

P.S.
I’ll probably cave and get a Type 59, if they’re still available by the time I get back to the game. If not, perhaps they’ll introduce some other premium medium tanks with decent guns.

5518

I have really been enjoying your posts in this thread, but you’re basically arguing that the BatChat is not OP because it can’t win a 15v15 match single-handed.

That’s all the proof I need to see that the BatChat is OP. :-)

5519

Hehe, I have to agree with Dave here. :)

If everything is like you described, balance is most likely the reason why Batchat has less shells than the Lorraine, even though they have the same gun.

Listen to yourself, you are saying you can shoot 30 shells, deal 9000 damage potentially (sure some shots will bounce and stuff but they bounce for other tanks as well, those that shoot like 15 shells per match top), easily and EARLY kill 4-5 high tier enemy tanks and somehow that’s a bad thing?

It’s not like the Patton can do all that, shoot 30 shots and still have 24 shells left for the “late game” because he has more ammo load.

If anything it means that Batchat has kind of front loaded impact on the match and that’s a HUGE advantage. Delivering those 30 shells within first 5 minutes of a match means that a bunch of enemy tanks will fire only 1 or 2 times, which means your team took nearly no damage and half of the enemy team is dead.

And again, if after THAT, your team still loses, it doesn’t matter which tier 9 medium tank you are driving, your team would have lost anyway.

I realize you’d like to have 50 shells and be able to do 15000 damage (while others deal about 4000 top) but some stuff just isn’t happening. :)

BTW, the reason why I think the Patton is a better med is not because it still has ammo after 12 minutes of fighting. :) It’s because IMO it’s, I don’t know, more comfortable to drive, maybe easier, which results in better impact on fights on average. I often see (and make) Batchats die within first minutes of a match and almost never see the Pattons do the same. In other words, on average, Batchat would have one awesome fight and one crappy fight while the Patton would have 2 pretty good fights. IMO.

5520

can’t wait for my pershing, lorry and T44 to graduate into their end tier brothers. Especially lorry. what a dog.