Because in reality it rarely if ever happened, too. In a grog game, you’d have real arty, infantry, air support, as well as the logistical and mobility issues heavy armor faced–mud, roadbeds, bridges, fuel, etc. That is, pure tank on tank battles were extraordinarily rare, especially in the western theater during the European war. The game, though, is all about tank on tank, so historical accuracy simply does not work at the gameplay level.
And yeah, historical battles were god-awful. Seemed like a good idea, but flopped hard.
I mean those battles would be sort of interesting if there was a realistic damage model, but with hit points you never want to be the guy that gets killed in one shot vs the guy that can get hit with penetrating rounds 15 times and still live.
I enjoyed fighting superior tanks with inferior ones in WW2OL, but I’m fairly sure that wouldn’t translate to WoT and it’s tiny battle box with magical spotting and hit points.
Because (and this is also in reply to TheWombat) WoT is not a sim.
Back 5 (6?) or so years ago, when the game was just starting, WG wanted to maintain certain historical accuracy whenever possible. This goal, however, was officially dropped 3-4 years ago. Real life stats are now more of a guidance but, as per WG, if gameplay and historical accuracy are in conflict, gameplay wins.
The entire point of the game - 15v15 tanks vs. tanks battles - is not realistic and sticking to realistic stats did not (and would not) work.
TheWombat, I am puzzled how you can say that " to make that many tanks, they have to homogenize them to the point that you lose much of the individuality of the vehicles." Yes, occasionally, there are some strangely similar tanks, like T-62 and Object 140 (what where they thinking ~4 years ago?) but majority of tanks are very distinct and feel unique. E-100, Maus, IS-7, IS-4, T110E5, Kramvagen (sp?), Type 5, AMX 50B, etc. - they are all VERY different heavies with completely different roles, gameplay, etc.
Anyway, you are right, YMMV of course. It’s not a sim and it doesn’t pretend to be one. People are jerks, just like in any other online game. But it’s still a very good fun game, IMO it’s the best at what it’s doing.
The game is fine for what it is, I agree. For me, the variety didn’t translate nearly as much into truly differentiated game play for all the tanks, especially in competitive play where you had few really viable choices IMO. And a lot of the unique aspects of all those tanks only worked in terms of actually being effective if you had teams that could take advantage of (and were aware of) the strengths and weaknesses of each vehicle. Most of the time in pub matches, there were far fewer choices that were actually viable if you wanted to win, much less carry. But then, maybe I simply wasn’t very good, and that could well be an issue there!
Really, by homogenize, I mean for me the tanks’ differences don’t really play out in most pub matches, other than to make most of them inferior to the flavor of the month that happens to be on top with the latest patch. But I suppose that, too, is the nature of the beast in this sort of game.
We have a Warships thread somewhere I think. It’s pretty old though. I’ve been playing Warships pretty heavily since I stopped playing Tanks, so I sort of agree with Stridergg about the basic formula Wargaming has. I think it works better in WoWS for some reason, maybe the pace of the game and the lack of terrain complications. Though it has the same issues in some respects–balancing a historical context with arcade gameplay, for instance–it seems to be more successful in that balance (for me at least).
I think World of Warplanes NA is lucky to get 600 players on now at peak . Personally, I just didn’t like the hitpoint style gameplay for planes. I’m a big fan of the sudden lethality of getting the right round in the right place - a .50 through the front plate of a cockpit shouldn’t chip away a fraction of the lifebar.
Conversely, I think the hitpoint-and-component style works perfectly for World of Warships.
Considering I’m good at War Thunder planes and pretty good at World of Warships I find it funny how terrible I am at both tank games.
Sorry, man, I like you a lot and agree with you on a lot of topics but here, you are just wrong. :)
In any of the tanks I’ve listed, you pretty much MUST use their unique features to be successful. If you play AMX 50B like it’s E-100, you will be a very miserable AMX 50B driver. :)
Oh, you’re right there (and one reason why my win rate in the 50B is terrible). I’m exaggerating the problems to some extent, absolutely. I still feel though that the more interesting tanks, the ones that required more specialized or particular skill sets, were never as popular as the more accessible tanks (that is, those more likely to deliver good results in the hands of average players). Which in turn resulted in very homogeneous matches in my experience. Maybe it’s just my personal experience; in the two clans I was in, I was constantly told not to play the tanks I actually wanted to play but to play instead the FOTM models deemed the best. So most CW matches certainly ended up being the same tanks over and over again.
Oh yeah, Clan Wars is a completely different beast and I don’t really like or play it anymore, for at least 2 years now IIRC. There is a lot of minimaxing going on there based on the current tanks’ balance and based on the particular tactic the commander wants to employ. And since those don’t change often, you end up driving the same tanks on the same maps doing the same stuff every freaking day. I got bored with it.
Regular random fights are much more diverse. Of course, there are “easier” tanks (IS-7) and more difficult to master tanks (AMX 50B) but it’s fun to learn to play more unique tanks. That’s the reason I love the new Sweden TDs - they are very unique, difficult to learn but can be completely devastating in the right hands in the right situation.
You’ve made me think a bit differently about it, for sure; I think I was letting my CW experiences color my enjoyment of the rest of the game, and maybe I need to go back and re-experience it in a new way.
I tried Warthunder and could never find anyone playing the realistic-ish simulation modes, only the more arcady stuff. Overall it didn’t grab me but I haven’t checked it in eons. Hell, I haven’t logged into WoT in eons either.
