Very cool calculations, SR, I didn’t realize the range affects the penetration THAT much. Are you sure it’s 20% at 200 meters? Seems kind of drastic, or maybe it’s not linear? Because if it’s linear, penetrating anything beyond my view range (which is around 500 m) would be problematic - my average penetration would become <100mm. And I penetrate Tigers and Tigers II pretty reliably on, for example, Campinovka. The same goes the other way around, my Ferdi gets penetrated on Campinovka all the time, even though its effective armor is supposed to be like 260-270 mm at that distance and only a few guns can penetrate that.
I am not really concerned about them penetrating me though - there are too many details I have no idea about (maybe they are using HE shells? or golden shells? maybe I exposed my side a bit?)
EDIT:
Incorrect information. Please see post 1739.
schurem
1743
you dont wanna snipe with those, you want to outflank targets that are otherwise occupied. you can not go one on one with anything but a loltractor in american tanks armed with one of the 76mm guns. I’ve chewed up tigers that were busy playing peekaboo with other tigers on multiple occasions using my easy eight. great fun because of the high RoF and accuracy :D
That’s probably mostly true, but I have to say that I found the 76 to be a good sniper against light/mediums, at least as successful against marauding scouts as the good 85 on the T-34/85, actually. Hit them in the side or rear and they die pretty easily, and the ROF makes it much less frustrating. Hell, I hit Leos with the long 122 on my Soviet tanks and it freakin’ bounces half the time, then takes an eternity to reload.
Still, I agree that the best use for the Shermans is running around the flanks of bigger tanks that are preoccupied with dinosaur dancing.
I don’t know, SR. My understanding was that 500 m is the limit of your detection range, i.e. the max distance you (yourself) can detect an enemy tank from) with all the modules. It’s not the max view distance, if someone else detects a target for you. Let’s take Campinovka for example and look at your number (386m from the ditch to the houses). I remember shooting from behind the big rock on the left flank (which is way behind the dicth, probably about 100m away) at the targets under their flag (which is probably about 100 m behind the houses, if not more). And killing them tigers there. But that’s by my memory which is known to be faulty lately. :)
I’ll be mindful of the distances and try and note some when I play later tonight. Still, I really doubt penetration drops to 20% at 500 m, my 200mm penetrating gun would drop to 40mm (30-50 mm), which wouldn’t be enough to penetrate anything at this point. I’ll keep an eye on it. I will also try and look around the Russian forums, if I have time today.
In other news, me Ferdi killed 8 enemies in a match last night, which is my record with it (I had only one 8-kill match before that, with my Panther). It felt good. For awhile. The enemy was left with only 4 arties (S-51, Grille, Bison and some small US one), we had only 1 arty left and about 6 tanks/td’s including my Ferdi, which was at 100% health. What do you know, 4 arties killed as all.
I know I’ve penetrated heavies with my panther’s long 88 at 700+ meters, so there must be more to it than that.
schurem
1747
how do you measure range in the game?
I’m going by rough guesstimation. It was on malinkova where I was off on the flank side, and was stopped firing at heavies that scouts were lighting up for me. The targets were so far away I had to zoom to be able to auto-target them, but they were stationary so most of my shots hit, and it was against an IS-3’s front left corner of the turret (since auto-target centers on turrets)
When you aim at a tank (even a destroyed one), the range is displayed a bit above of the reticle.
EDIT:
Please disregard my previous numbers.
Cannot locate the original post on the Russian forum (mainly because, having lived outside of Russia for 20 years my language skills have deteriorates and I read the language veeeeery sloooowly), but I found a re-post of the same information on the English forums:
So as you can see, the fault lies with my reading of the original post in Russian. My apologies for the incorrect information. For those that don’t want to go to the forum (or no longer have access), the post states:
"At 100m - gun has 100% penetration (+/- 25% random)
At 500m - approx -20% to its penetration value.
With distance, from 100m to 500m penetration degrades linearly."
Again, I apologize for the incorrect information. I’ll be more careful next time when posting from memory and confirm the numbers before I do so.
No problem, SR, happens all the time.
BTW I was able to confirm that 500m is indeed the hard limit on the detection range only, i.e. you can’t detect anyone beyond 500m. However, if anyone else detects it for you, you can see the enemy beyond 500m.
In the meantime, I found quite a few interesting facts. One of them is that several bushes between you and the enemy serve as a “hard wall”, like a concrete wall and allow you to shoot and move without being detected. However, if you are farther than 15 m from the bush, it starts working both ways - you won’t be able to detect anyone beyond those bushes either. BTW, 50m is another “hard limit” on detection - all tanks detect everyone within 50m regardless of cover, position, movement, etc.
Oh and detection works in 360 degrees around the tank, so it doesn’t matter if you approach the enemy from behind, he will still detect you. BTW the “eye of the tank” (the point that is used as origin for the “tracing rays” to detect enemies) is located where the gun connects to the turret, so sticking out your butt around the corner won’t help you detect incoming enemies. :)
Anyone else notice that the French tank tree has been posted? The devs say that the pre-war tanks will be slow and heavily armored, while the wartime designs will be quick but fragile. Interesting, but probably disastrous. The low-tier pre-war designs may be able to dominate their undergunned counterparts, but very little time is spent in those tiers. The high-tier tanks as described sound like cannon fodder. Too soon to say for sure, of course.
It’s rather weird, too, given that the French fielded no indigenous tank designs during the war, after 1940, that I know of at least. The AMX-13 that seems to be on the list is a post-war design and the rest of that junk looks horrid.
Yeah, a full French tree is hard to imagine given the occupation. I always saw their tanks as being supplements to the German and British trees. Even if a full French tree was a good idea, why the devs chose to work on such a difficult one before the Brits is beyond me.
That brings back fond memories of WW2 Online. It was always difficult to tell when a Char Bis was actually moving. The difference between parked and driving was hardly worth mentioning. On the upside if you ever made it to the front lines you could shrug off enemy fire.
I finally…finally unlocked the Tiger. (I’m not a very fast upgrader…)
How horribly disappointing is the stock Tiger…wow. I had to sell my 3601 to buy this thing and sell my Stug…and my Lee :)
So all I have now is this stock Tiger and a nearly stock Jagdpanzer IV. And about 50,000 credits. The Tiger…it’s bad. Really bad. I did slap the VK 88 on it. So I pick the same targets I did previously. I understand that it’s a heavy (my first). I understand that I can’t play like I was before. But holy crap is it bad.
I may as well be playing without tracks at all as often as they’re removed. And if I can get up a hill with it I always feel like they should play the theme from Rocky. If I manage to hurt the ridiculously high tier 9 and 10’s I’m up against I cheer endlessly.
To me it doesn’t seem that I get any more credits than I did with the 3601 after a match. You’d think they would go up a bit, maybe it’s just all the painkillers I’m on. Hopefully if I can manage to suffer through the suspension/engine/turret/gun upgrades it will be fun to play with.
But there will be a softwipe by then so I may as well just pick up the Tiger 2. I’m just stunned by how not good the Tiger turned out to be. Kind of depressing.
It’s still like that at the beginning of a map. Not that I’ve played in a half year or so. But yeah…it’s still like that. :)
Haven’t been paying attention to the forums, eh? ;-) Both the official ones and this thread have repeatedly talked about the shortcomings of the Tiger. Even when it’s fully upgraded, it’s far worse than the other heavies in its tier. The KT is okay, but the VK4502 and the Maus are back to Tiger levels of sucking. Just avoid the German heavy line entirely.
I know :(
I’ve always been a big fan of the Tiger historically and it was my goal from when I got my beta invite. It’s just a letdown to actually see that all the talk is true.
Sadly, it is. You need a new goal. Mine became “play tanks that don’t suck” after I suffered through the German heavy line for the same reasons you did.
