1821

Whether there is any action taken based on our feedback isn’t relevant to me personally, since I’m here simply to play a game I enjoy. They already fixed a whole lot of minor bugs and annoyances and introduced a lot of incremental improvements. But most importantly they fixed one major issue based on player feedback. I’m talking about the warp fix of course. The warping was driving me up the wall, and if not for the promise of the developers working on a fix, I would have quit the game a while ago. But they said they were working on it, and they did fix it. Revitalizing the game completely at least for me personally. Which is why I’m not giving up hope for the continual improvement of a game they let me play for free.

These developers may not listen to me personally, but I don’t care. They have a history of fixing those issues that players are most adamant about. People complained about warping, they fixed it. People complained about artillery, they nerfed it a bit (you never want to overdo things). Now they will be adjusting it yet again in a pretty big way - while addressing another frequent player complaint - that of module damage caused by HE ammo. Which also happens to be a direct nerf to artillery, seeing as most HE (and practically all splash damage) originates from it.

People complained about tier balance in matches (despite the fact that it was the soft wipe that screwed it over beyond all hope)? They are incrementally addressing that issue as well, in previous patches and in the announced future ones. Even today it isn’t bad, and I rarely find myself in matches where I am hopelessly outmatched.
People complained about succeptibility to fire? They addressed that too. Not only do I very rarely get set on fire these days, but when it happens I take half the damage a second from it than I used to. People complained that secondary skills were bugged to not work until reaching 100%? They fixed them. Now the skills work as intended. People wanted more map variety? They added 6 new ones since I started playing. And this list goes on.

So when they say they are working on the (complicated) detection issue, I believe them. And why I consider statements accusing the developers of doing nothing to be nothing but sheer hyperbole.

1822

Only the warp fix broke spotting and arguably destroyed the balance in the game.

Now the game is all about Heavies and Arty. Everything else is fodder for them. More specifically Russian Heavies and Arty right now since they are the best of each category.

I don’t see any plans to make light and medium tanks worth a damn and their solutions for fixing tier 9 and 10 tanks seem extremely lackluster. More hps for the Maus? Really? How about its 150mm gun? Nope can’t do that for some reason. Have fun fighting the IS-7 that can roll around at 50 kph and shoot the crap out of you while you sit there like a giant turd.

Is there hope? Sure. It just seems like they’re completely ignoring huge issues. Its a beta so I’ll probably go with a high tier medium with the softwipe just to prove they’re crap. Right now I don’t fear Panthers in my Jagdpanther or KV-3. I don’t forsee suddenly being scared of a Panther2 since its 100mm of armor is effectively nothing and its gun isn’t likely to be any more dangerous than the current Panther’s gun. Of course it will cost more than an IS-4 to repair and be less effective than my KV-3…

1823

It does seem that the developer is really focusing on the firepower part of the firepower, mobility, and protection holy trinity of tank design. A big gun trumps pretty much everything else. There is a serious lack of utility for light and medium tanks right now, which is sort of masked by all the soft wipes and artificiality of the beta environment, which allows so many people to have such high-tier heavies, in greater proportion than the release version will probably have for months, at least.

Some of this will undoubtedly shake out over time, but I do worry a bit about the lack of tactical missions for anything but the heavies (and arty, but that’s kinda a different issue). One big cause of the problems IMO is the mixing in of post-war tank design, which started to get heavy tanks to the speeds of wartime mediums. It’s not quite modern-era Abrams and Leopard II level silliness (70 tons at 50mph or whatnot), but currently the game gives heavies far more tactical mobility–including lack of modeling of ground pressure, turret/gun collision with structures, and bridge loading–than they ever had historically.

1824

Only the warp fix broke spotting and arguably destroyed the balance in the game.

And your point is? So far it goes like this: “They never fix stuff we ask for!” - “But they fixed warping” - “Yeah but it broke spotting!” So? Sometimes patches have unexpected implications, happens all the time. The important thing is they are working on it.

BTW, we noticed that the visibility bug is very inconsistent - it would be non-existent on one day and unbearable on another. We had to quit playing on Friday due to it because it was so glaringly obvious game after game. And yet I played some games on Saturday and Sunday and they played great, with very little problems.

As for the mediums’ discussion, personally, I have zero complaints about my Panther. Yes, if all you do is shadowing heavies and TD’s, then yeah you might as well drive a heavy or a TD.

Post war heavies take mediums’ niche? Come on, most of the games, there is only 1-2 IS-7 or IS-4, rarely 3 or more. Even if that one IS-4 is as fast as a medium (and it’s not), it doesn’t mean all those 8 mediums have nothing to do all of a sudden. Visibility bug aside, of course, because nowadays everyone is sitting in bushes anyway and speed doesn’t matter. Player’s skill aside as well because most people have no idea how to play, especially mediums that require considerably more skill than others.

As a Ferdi driver, for example, I am much more scared of 3 VK36’s approaching me than one IS-3. But most of the time, they would approach me one at a time and this is what makes them useless, alone IS-3 is just as useless as a VK36. Well almost :)

I can’t even count how many times my friend and I (driving a Panther and 3002DB) pretty much singlehandedly won matches by finding a weak spot and attacking there while 90% of the match’s population would trade shots in some other place.

1825

It’s a beta because they aren’t taking our money. Sure, they’re taking money on the russian servers but that really isn’t our problem. Now Company of Heroes Online is a game that doesn’t deserve to call itself a beta, since they’re taking money.

They haven’t been speedy by any means but they do fix the major problems with the game. It keeps getting better. There is a sticky thread about the visibility issues so I don’t know how you miss it.

I’ll give you that most teams in betas have better turn around and better communication, but you have to consider that most of them are larger teams, and most of them probably natively speak the language of the testers involved.

It’s a crapload better than, say, the Master of Orion 3 beta, where the testers that tried to point out the problems with the game were shut out and those that heaped praise on the game became the inner circle.

1826

I was mostly referring to the game’s general design, rather than specifics, but I still disagree that mediums have much to do. In many of the games I play it’s 8-10 heavies and a mix of other things, and unless the mediums are T-44s or Panthers they are pretty much toast, when the game gives big guns such an advantage with no corresponding disadvantages beyond a lower ROF usually. Mid-tier mediums are particularly problematic all too often; unless you have an extraordinarily well-coordinated team, they simply don’t work together. Even when they do, the way the penetration modeling is in this game you can hit the flanks and rear of heavies repeatedly with 75-85mm cannons and not do any damage, while one shot from the heavy will obliterate you.

I remain unconvinced that as the game stands mediums have an actual role. Some are relatively fast, but others are pretty slow. They can be killed even by lights with relative ease, and they have a hard time killing heavies. Historically medium tanks were designed to, well, do everything else but fight tanks, with the exception of later, heavier mediums like the Panther. With no other targets in the game, and no tactical missions beyond run for the flag, they just don’t have a real role right now.

I think if you hard-capped heavies in any game to no more than five per side, max, things might work much better. Of course, right now everyone is driving heavies because of the soft wipes, and the game simply offers more variety in the heavy tank line.

1827

It has? You are exaggerating to the point of silliness. I play the game nearly every day and while the spotting system can be problematic on some maps, on others the bug might not even exist. I realize you said “arguably”, so I argue that the warp fix did more for the state of the game than any change so far, and the detection bugs don’t occur all the time - or even close to that.

That’s strange, my ISU-152 and Ferdinand treat heavies as slow cannon fodder. After unlocking the Ferdinand’s final gun, only the IS-4/VK45 from the front bounce ~30% of shots. No heavy tank is immune to these TDs from the side and back.

Indeed it’s the medium tanks that I fear, since those can easily flank and run circles around my high tier tank destroyers. Just last night I had a VK36 flank my Ferdinand using cover, before I could turn to face him, and he occupied my attention (and took half my HP, firing into my sides) long enough for his bigger friends to arrive and finish me off in a couple of shots. Even if they hadn’t, he would have finished me himself unless he made a mistake. I simply could not out-turn him, and any tank/TD’s sides are weak to his gun.

When I see medium tanks approaching, I drop everything and try to take them down at range. Cthulu help me if they get close.

Sorry but the IS-7 doesn’t roll out and roll back to cover instantly. In a corner duel like that the Maus gun is trained right on it, being able to shoot the IS-7 the second it pops out. I know this because I’ve seen it countless times (after getting killed) by watching Maus drivers play. I’ve also seen IS-7s bounce on the Maus repeatedly, while the Maus has no trouble penetrating back. People always seem to forget that while the IS-7 is fast, it has weaker armor than the IS-4 (which is really the tank one should be worried about).

In fact, in this game armor doesn’t really matter - hitpoints do. HE ammo from tanks and artillery bypass armor. And all tanks get guns way above their tiers, so that you can always penetrate stuff at least from the side and back. With the disorganized nature of play, you will always get some flankers on you and will always take some shots in the sides or back, making your strong front armor quite irrelevant.

Then there are tank destroyers, which get guns that also turn heavy armor irrelevant. Indeed my most successful vehicle to date is the ISU-152. It has a massive gun that ignores virtually all armor in the game, itself has no armor to speak of an is only relying on stealth to survive.

The Ferdinand, on the other hand, also succeeds not due to its massive front armor (which is penetrated all the time) but due to its gun, mobility and stealth.

Now, that said, they are increasing considerably the “weight” of heavy tanks in the balance system. So that an IS-3 or Tiger II are no longer considered the equivalent of a Panther or T-44. So that an IS or T29 are no longer the equivalent of a VK(DB) or T-43. That is clearly an unfair comparison and the developers are addressing the situation.

You mean aside from the ones I already mentioned?

Artillery addressed once and will be again? Check.
Warping addressed? Check.
Tier balance being addressed? Check.
Detection bugs being addressed? Ah, this must be the huge issue you are talking about. Any others? I don’t quite understand, though, how it’s being ignored when we are told that the developers are working on this very complex issue. Perhaps you have something else in mind that they are “completely ignoring”?

Gamers sure do like hyperbole.

1828

This will help. Don’t get me wrong; I still like playing mediums because 1) they’re iconic, and 2) they are mobile. They feel different than heavies and I like the variety. And with more “normal” populations and a start from scratch pool of players, I am hoping the match-making will be better too come release.

All in all, despite my grousing occasionally, I find the game pretty fun for what it is. Pretty, too, though I wish they’d get more variety in the armor penetration graphics. All those shell holes look kinda like they too potshots at a plastic model tank with a pellet rifle.

1829

Again, I think much of the complaining from US players is a result of the devs using us as stress testers and nothing more. They want to improve their game, and they do listen…to paying Russian customers. What gets fixed is a combo of their complaints and the devs’ own agenda, while the US base makes a lot of unheard noise. If a gamer whines on a forum with no dev to hear, does he make a sound?

1830

Heh. I can’t blame them for listening to people who spend money with them.

1831

I remain unconvinced that as the game stands mediums have an actual role. Some are relatively fast, but others are pretty slow. They can be killed even by lights with relative ease, and they have a hard time killing heavies. Historically medium tanks were designed to, well, do everything else but fight tanks, with the exception of later, heavier mediums like the Panther. With no other targets in the game, and no tactical missions beyond run for the flag, they just don’t have a real role right now.

You are right to a degree. T-28 or Pz III have no chance against IS, IS-3 or IS-4 and frankly, shouldn’t be seeded with high tier heavies. But then again, as you mentioned in you other post, with more “normal” populations, these matchups should be rare.

On the other hand, T-34-85, T-43 and T-44 are perfectly viable even in the high tier fights. The same is true about PzIV, VK36, VKDB and even both VK3001’s (I really dislike the § one though). You say “They can be killed even by lights with relative ease, and they have a hard time killing heavies”. Come on, when was the last time you saw a light killing a T-34-85? And I see swarms of mediums killing heavies and TD’s all the time. As I said before, a group of 3 mediums is more scary to my Ferdi than a KT or IS-3. With a KT, it’s 50/50 or better (in my favor) depending on penetration and track shots. With 3 meds, I am dead in 99%. Even with 2 meds if they know what they are doing.

Mediums are more difficult to play than heavies, no doubt. They require more skill and coordination and one or another is missing most of the time giving the perception that meds have no role. Your heavies are engaged with more than half of the enemy team on the right flank? Grab a few friends, abandon the right flank and go left, you’ll kill the remaining enemies there one by one, kill their arty and get the flag. Balanced teams are so rare, most of the time people go as one big herd presenting lots of opportunities for flanking. Hell, even my Ferdi (that I am playing almost exclusively lately) often participates in flanking action, if I happen to be on the correct flank.

1832

All I have is a Tiger, a Jagdpanzer IV and the 2nd Russian arty.

I think this is where most of my issues stem from. It’s taking forever to get to the Jagdpanther, much less the Ferdi. :)

And the Tiger desperately needs help, or at least the giant napalm tanks taken off the sides. Seriously though, the thing catches on perma-fire at least 3/10 battles. My crew is so scared of fire they just bail on me, I think. More than once I’ve been pinged with HE by a PzIV or something silly and just helplessly burn to death.

Yeah I know, get a fire extinguisher. :) Having trouble with credits unless I just exclusively play the Jpzer, which looks like I’m about ready to do.

Thinking come softwipe, the way to go will be to blast through the German TD line and have a Ferdi and Jagdtiger available. Use the rest of the XP to see how far down the IS tree I can go. I have sold too many tanks, have no idea how much XP I actually have…should probably check that sometime.

1833

what you should do is spend some gold on garage slots. get yourself a couple of tier 5 or 6 tanks for farming and fun.

For me personally, much of the fun in the game stems from the collector part of it. I have like 15 tanks on the beta, and 9 on the .ru server.

1834

That’s true but when I get enough exp for a new tank but not enough credits to buy it, my weak willpower forces me to sell what I have :) Right now all I have is the Ferdi, Panther, Hummel, PzIV (used it to get the Hummel, haven’t sold it yet but I don’t like it that much) and the M3 Lee I am stuck with (I dislike it so much, I can’t even force myself to grind through it).

I’ve had a few tanks I REALLY enjoyed playing and were very good moneymakers (Jagdpanther, 3002DB, VK36), unfortunately I had to sell them all :) Ferdi and Panther are not the best moneymakers and I don’t enjoy playing the Hummel, so I need to get me a new moneymaking machine. :) I am still thinking whether I should grind through M3 to get T1 or finish the A20 to get the T-34. Or buy a Tiger but you all scared me away from it. :)

How is the Tiger from moneymaking point of view?

1835

There is no point of view from which a Tiger looks good.

1836

Lol, I’ve got to try the Tiger. :) BTW have you tried a stock Panther? It really sucks a lot, it’s as slow as a Ferdi but gets really awesome with upgrades. Is it similar for Tigers? I need to try it myself.

Sigh, more money grinding.

1837

Once I got the longer 88 on the Tiger it’s not as bad as all that. If you play long range like you’re supposed to you can clear quite a bit of credits. Just have to hit a few guys.

1838

Nope. I haven’t played US heavies, so I can’t talk about them, but the stock Tiger is far inferior to the stock IS, the partially upgraded Tiger is far inferior to the partially upgraded IS, and the fully upgraded Tiger is far inferior to the fully upgraded IS. Buy an IS.

1839

The stock Tiger was the single most painful experience I’ve had in the game since the beginning. Really. I wanted my 3601 back so bad after 10 or 12 matches. Wish I hadn’t sold it.

1840

My “go to” tank is a maxed out medium, a T-34/85. I get killed by PzIIIs, no lie. They hit me with the HE (this should change with the next patch I hope) and get lucky. Or, they get a lucky hit and module damage, though that’s more likely to happen with a shot from the T-28 with the 57.

Still, I see what you are saying. But T-43 (I have one of those as well) and T-44 are higher tier and yeah, they are fine in the game right now in terms of balance with heavies. I’ll grant you that. The mediums we all know and love from the history books though, I think, are getting kinda short-shrift here. Shermans, PzIVs, stock T-34s? Fun but there’s very few times they have appropriate opposition it seems.