Then you could play a worgen to 60 I guess I dunno. You need all the previous expansions to use the new one.

That is probably the most convoluted method I have ever heard of. Let players do what they want to do. If you kill a MOB it should give the same experience as any other MOB of the same level regardless of what area it’s in.

My thoughts:

Overall this is the worst WoW expansion yet. At least in terms of the 80-85 content. I haven’t done the new Goblin/Worgen zones.

Hyjal was… OK. It wasn’t particularly memorable. Mainly because the stuff that was happening there I didn’t have a connection with. It was IMO the weakest expansion starter zone thus far. Hellfire Peninsula wasn’t perfect, but it was familiar territory (WC2: Beyond the Dark Portal) and the whole Burning Legion thing I could get, you know? They’re the bad guys from WC3. I know and dislike the burning legion.

But Hyjal? Yeah we fought here in WC3, but it just wasn’t the memorable part of that game. WC3 for me was always about Arthas. Howling Fjorde/Borean Tundra were awesome because they were the initial beachhead against the Lich King. Hell, I remember going to BT on my horde toon, arriving at a fortress under siege where my first quests were to defend against the attackers. That was awesome.

Hyjal? Not so much. I just don’t feel connected to all the stuff. I realize there’s all sorts of background here from the War of the Ancients, but that’s lore that wasn’t part of any game so I mostly don’t care about it. I’m not the type to read the Warcraft novels or anything. And while the climax was neat, it paled in comparison to the Wrathgate/Battle for Undercity stuff that it was obviously modeled after.

And don’t get me started on Vash’Jir. Some of the questing here is like the worst charicature of WoW. “Go kill 8 fish for me for no good fucking reason!” Meanwhile the Twilight Hammer duder that I’d expect would maybe have some work for me seeing as how we’re, oh I duno, trying to save the world doesn’t have anything to say to me. Vash is not very good at all.

It’s only like 1.25 zones I’ve done so far, but I am not impressed at all.

In Hyjal’s defense, there is a quest where you Drop Bears on trampolines from trees. The official QT3 guild so go camp there.

I haven’t played through Horde side but the Alliance quests definitely have the feel of the early LK quests. Your boat gets attacked by a sea monster, you have to rescue people and work with the Earthen Ring to protect the survivors, you work through why the naga are all riled up, and you even get to do fun things like ride a seahorse and make a shark eat people. As I said earlier I can completely understand why some people don’t like it because the movement is difficult to get used to, but I think the quest design and story are great. And definitely don’t miss out on the new races’ starting zones, they are incredibly done with cutscenes, lots of phasing, and again story that I enjoyed.

You are of course aware that you’re complaining about a five-course meal after eating half the salad.

My early-ish impressions of the Worgen content: fairly disappointing. I’ve played my new Worgen to level 13 (with no heirloom gear, so 13 means I am I think just about done with the storyline). The areas look great, and there is at least one pretty cool cutscene (when you wake up as a Worgen) and one fun quest (lobbing yourself onto the boats). Everything else is actually a little bit worse than stuff was in the original game. The quests themselves are basically the same: go kill 4 of these, go collect this, and so on. There really isn’t much interesting or unique quest design. There’s one semi-interesting one where you go collect horses while dodging an Ettin, but it’s ripped off from the identical quest that you do when bringing up a Death Knight so it doesn’t really count. There’s another one where you throw bombs from a computer-controlled horseback that is a bit fun, but again it’s very similar to the bombing runs in Outland. Other than those, it’s really just the same old stuff: kill ten forsaken invaders, collect six stag shanks, etc.

The big problem with it all, though, is that the whole experience is basically on rails. I understand why they’re doing that – they want an actual story, and this is the easiest way to do their new phasing thing – but in my opinion you end up with the worst of both worlds. You’re still doing very basic stuff in terms of gameplay and story, so it’s not as good as an actual RPG. But you completely lose the open world and self-determination that you had in the old game, which is what made the uninspired and basic gameplay worthwhile. You have essentially zero choice about where to go or what quests to do. I often would have only one active quest, and even when I had more than one it was usually 2 or 3 quests all given out in Place A, which were all completed right next to each other in Place B, and then all turned in back in Place A. It’s like riding a Disneyland ride instead of exploring a forest: slickly produced and visually stimulating, but not nearly as fun because it’s all so clearly contrived and there’s no sense of exploration or ownership of the experience. And it leads to problems during launch time, because when there are 10 people all waiting to kill Executor Doomhat, it really sucks when that is the ONLY QUEST YOU HAVE and nothing else can possibly be done until you complete it.

On top of that, there are some serious potential bugs. For example, with my Worgen I somehow broke the final quest to retake Gilneas City. You’re supposed to fight with the Gilnean army to retake the place from the Forsaken, but if you walk in the wrong gate by mistake the whole battle happens without you there, and then for Step 2 you’re supposed to follow some guy who leaves without you and the whole thing breaks. I’m stuck wandering around the town not able to finish the final goal, but apparently not able to just say “Screw it” and go do something else because this is the Disneyland ride, and you don’t get off until it’s finished. It causes all sorts of bizarre effects, like if I walk outside the city I apparently go into a new phase and can look back and see the city populated by Gilneans, but if I walk into the city again they vanish and there are Forsaken to fight. I can stand near the border and watch people appear and disappear and appear again as I step forward and back.

It’s a shame, really. I had high hopes for this expansion, but they’ve taken a radical new tack in design philosophy (away from open worlds that encourage exploration and more towards a directed experience) that I really don’t like in an MMO. I don’t know whether the redesigned original-game lowbie areas are the same or not, but the Worgen area was a fairly big disappointment for me.

Surprised there are people who aren’t enjoying the new stuff.

I haven’t done much with Hyjal, so I can’t really comment on that, but I love Vash’jir. The quests were a lot of fun to do right after the expansion came out, mostly because it was a crazy clusterfuck of people in a three dimensional space. Sure it was tough to get the quests done, but there was a definite charm to it all. After getting about halfway through the zone and doing some of those very cool quests, I began to get caught up in gathering herbs, because they’re currently selling like mad (I’ve made over 12,000 gold in two days) and the game really came alive for me.

It may seem odd, but so far the most fun I’ve had in the expansion is flying over the new zones picking herbs. This is primarily because all the new zones (with the possible exception of Hyjal) are gorgeous and seem to have a lot of crazy stuff going on within their borders. Deepholm is like a cooler Outland zone, Vash’jir is relaxing while just swimming around picking herbs, Twilight Highland does a great job looking like a classic zone that’s been twisted by strange powers, and Uldum is probably my favorite looking WoW zone of all time (love the theme). And the fact that you can now fly around the old world ties it all together. Exploration has come back to WoW (it left when they removed wall walking).

Anyway, just my experience, but I can’t wait to do a whole lot more.

Exactly!
I still haven’t got my CE so I did some re-modeled 1-60 content again to clear some achievements.
This time I hit Felwood and Tanaris and it’s exactly as you say:
Felwood you start in the south at Camp A to kill shit nearby.
Then they send you further North to Camp B to do the same.
Then to Camp C etc. until you end up close to the tunnel to Winterspring.
There a NPC will send you through to another NPC in the South of Winterspring etc.
The sense of exploring is totally and utterly gone compared to vanilla when I did those zones the first time.
Tanaris is the same. You don’t even have to go into the Silithid tunnels anymore to look for missing people / equipment. Getting lost in those tunnels was fun back then.

Another beef I have is with those chained quests where the quest giver somehow will contact you once you did one of the quests right after (so no hand-in at him / her necessary) and tell you what to do next.
In the beginning Blizzard did come up with explainations (the Banshee Queen can communicate with you through the Valky’r that is with you etc.) but later on they don’t give a fuck anymore.
Probably they imagine that people got used to get contacted by NPCs in the field now without any radio or magic.

Sloppy design is sloppy and breaks what little left there is of immersion!

Yeah, I finished up Vashj’ir last night and by the end of it I was glad to leave. I get what they’re trying to do but it really did feel entirely on rails. I wasn’t as enamoured with the zone as some - frankly it’s a garish place that looks the same for 90% of it (I’m sick of caves already…) - and I got kinda annoyed with how many times I ended up playing as a naga-shaped vehicle in utterly trivial missions that are impossible to lose. Yes, it’s a decent story, but I was disappointed that they chose to treat the player like a four year old.

Only the plus side I too have been making a killing from herbs.

I like it and find it massively more immersive than vanilla. “travel to the other side of the map and bash 50 rats before I send you there again to kill 10000000000 rabbits because only 1 in 100 seems to have a liver” wasn’t immersive or epic or, sorry Tom, fun.

I’m actually enjoying questing. There, I said it. Vanilla wow was a test of endurance getting to 60 and I stopped paying attention to the quests pretty early on when it was made painfully clear that your actions have no impact on the wider world.

This is enjoyable, I feel like im part of a wider story and I can see my actions impacting the world around me. No, im not exploring, but I never was in vanilla either when I had wow on one screen, thottbott on the other and a list if foozles I needed to kill/collect and the co-ords I’d find them at. Exploring comes when I hit 85 and start gearing up, skilling up my trades, mat collecting and polishing off quests I want to do.

I really wish vanilla wow had been as good as this.

I wouldn’t call that questing but to each their own I suppose.

For the record: I was a Loremaster in WoTLK and I did probably every single player quest in the game on both sides playing since 2004.
I hardly used Thottbot / Wowhead in all those years to look up quests and never had Quest Helper or something alike on my computer.

I did finish most of the new “Quest in x achievements” in Eastern Kingdom (apart from Stranglethorn) and around 30% in Kalimdor so I can compare the old and new design.
The new is more or less an interactive movie with zero challenge.

I’m certainly not going to hold up the old 1-60 experience as some sort of high water mark for questing. Some of that shit was abusive.

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I agree that the process is much more guided and on-rails, and that for the most part it’s not that difficult. Nevertheless, I’m still enjoying it for the most part. I raided Hyjal back in the day, so seeing it again as an outdoor zone was really awesome for me - I recognized a number of the landmarks, and that was fun.

In addition, Archaeology is a fun thing to do while you’re flying around.

Oh, and flying through the old world is a blast. Maybe it’s because of all the old memories, but tooling over areas I leveled in years ago makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

Yeah I can relate.
A guildie of mine did some archelogy yesterday as well.
In Ferales at DM he said “Oh do you remember those elite Gordok ogres from back in the day around DM that hit like trucks? I’m one-shotting those bastards right now with fel fire. Feels so good! :)”

I disagree that Cataclysm’s design represents any kind of radical shift in design philosophy for Blizzard. It’s a direct outgrowth of what they’ve been doing all along, even in the game at launch. They’ve just gotten a lot better at it (and gotten new tools like phasing and vehicles) along the way. The quest-centric design has always been about guiding you from place to place through stories…early on, it just was kind of haphazard and full of annoying design trends like sending you somewhere to do one thing, then in the next step sending you right back there to do something else you could easily have accomplished the first time through if you’d been allowed.

And sure, it’s a lot more on rails now. But there’s never been all that much exploration involved, really. This isn’t like, say, EQ2, where there are tons of hidden quests to stumble across as you poke around in a zone. (At least in the early content). It’s always been about quest hubs and breadcrumb quests and so on. It’s just more explicit now. You can still go and quest elsewhere, for the most part - there’s usually a couple zones, minimum, for your level.

I just finished the Worgen questline last night. I thought it was pretty good, but not perfect. I had hoped they’d explore a little deeper with the whole curse thing. The cutscene shows a male worgen even if you’re female. Sylvannas killing the prince didn’t play out quite right as it happened. I was able to figure it out by scrolling up the text and reading backwards. So, that was mostly cool if only they had used voice overs (or louder voice overs? I didn’t hear any). The end of the series felt rushed, and there was even one area of the zone I didn’t reveal. Next thing I know we’re packing it up and fleeing with the night elves. Wait, what?! I thought we were kicking ass? Oh, I guess not, chaulk up yet another victory for Horde in Cata. wtf.

I wouldn’t call that questing

Neither would I, it was grinding through the level treadmill on my own so I could play the same game the rest of my friends were playing.

I couldn’t tell you why I collected any of the foozles in vanilla or TBC or even what the overall plots for the questlines were because it didn’t matter, nothing changed as a result of me doing the quests.

Granted you can say the same thing about raiding or 5 man instances. Last time I looked I’d run Naax over 60 times and that never bothered me as much as having to run a quest before I could do something.

This time round my actions change [my] game world so I’m far more interested in what it is I’m actually doing than just working out the XP given for map distance walked across. Hyjal is the first wow zone ever that I’ve completed every quest in it simply because I was enjoying the quests themselves rather than grudgingly doing them to get XP.

You know, the problem I had with Vash was that I get shipwrecked, I help out the survivors and then all of a sudden my Earthen Ring buddy has nothing for me to do… But over there a lady wants me to fetch her jewels from the sea floor! I’m back on track with the Earthen Ring now, but that was kind of a jarring interlude.