3581

Hehe, I can imagine.

If there is a quest giving item in your bag, it’ll have a yellow border and a huge ! on the graphic. You can’t miss it.

3582

So by “80-85 content,” you mean “80-81 content.”

I am finding the same problem with the goblin starting area. Go talk to a guy, go kill some other guys. That’s it? I made it all the way to level 2 after like three quests, and they were BO-RING! And I’m sure the next 83 levels will be exactly like this, which is why I’m fine with passing judgement now.

3583

Well, the overall ratio of gimmick to kill/harvest quests has always been skewed toward the latter. Much of your time in any MMO is going to be doing kill X stuff or click this button X times. It’s the nature of the medium.

However, last night, working my way back through Northrend I got to a point where I was honestly sick of the gimmick quests. I had a bunch of them one after another and I was trying to ding before going to bed. Gimmick quests can be fast, but generally they are much slower to complete than the kill quests and give you less XP overall since you aren’t killing things (or if you are, you aren’t getting xp for it).

3584

I’ve just hit 84, and the leveling curve definitely slows down. 80-81 and 81-82 were both about 3 hours for me, but 82-83 and 83-84 were both 6 hours apiece. And now I’m starting the 9.2 million climb to 85, which, if it takes 7 hours, will put me right at 25 hours total for the full 80-85 run.

3585

So what you’re saying is: if you ignore all the new, fun quests, and all the quests that are similar to other quests from other parts of the game (including the one that is similar to the Death Knight quest, because everyone has played a Death Knight, right?), it’s just more of the same. Is that right?

I’m not sure what you want. Do you expect all of your quests to have completely new mechanics that have never been done before anywhere, ever? It’s not practical to assume that every single quest will have a completely original mechanic. Have you ever considered that some worgen players are, I don’t know, new to the game? They’re not sitting around going, “Oh, this is so similar to that one Outland quest I did four years ago! How positively droll!”

(Very basic, if you ignore all the new stuff, or if you fail to recognize that “kill 8 chickens” is different than “kill 8 worgen in the middle of a huge battle.”)

Right, because vanilla WoW was great at giving you an open-world feel! Sure, you would always have to kill ten boars, but you got to choose who would give you that quest! “Do I want to help Farmer Jenkins, or Martha Brown? Oh, what choices I have to make in this immersive fantasy world!”

Here’s the thing with epic, world-changing gameplay: A lot of time, it’s going to be on rails. If you want quests like, “The undead are massing at our gates! Quick, take this sword and lead our troops to victory,” they will necessarily have a do-this-right-now feel. You don’t get:

“Quick, take this sword and lead our troops to victory…I mean, if you have time. Really, no hurry. Oh, you want to go collect salamander eyes? Yeah, sure, go ahead! No, it’s no trouble at all! Please! We’re all fine here. Go ahead, and just come back when you get a chance. Or just head to Goldshire. Either way.”

No, it’s not, because you’re not actually a worgen yet at level 1. You are playing through the storyline where you become a worgen and battle the undead. You’re playing through a historical battle. If you just want to go to Elwynn Forest, go roll a human. Really, it’s like you’re complaining that your open-world WWII game is “on rails” because it doesn’t let you leave the Army, move to Italy, and set up a pawn shop.

Right. Back then, there were open-world starting areas, where you got to participate in such epic questlines as “I’m hungry, can you collect some wolf meat” or “I think I saw some bandits over there in the woods, no hurry though” or “Hey did you see my friend Dave, I think he’s supposed to be here by now.”

See, the new starting areas are much less open, because…

It’s. The. Starting. Area. “I miss the old open-world feel of WoW! My quests from level 1 to 3 were so linear!” Yes, it’s linear. It’s a starting area. It’s trying to tell a story, to give you a sense of progression. The open-world stuff is still there…after level 13! You can’t have an epic storyline and open-world gameplay at the same time. If you have the One Ring, you generally have to head towards Mount Doom. That’s how it works.

3586

Dude, I leveled my dwarf warlock to 60 and at least, each revamped zone, is pretty darn linear. You can go to any part you wish, but within a zone the quest flowchart is pretty much straight. One of my guild mates said the new post 80 content is even more linear than the revamped zones, but I’m not there yet so can’t vouch for that. Whether you think that’s bad or not, is based on your preferences.

3587

He was specifically complaining that you couldn’t leave the worgen starting area and go do something else. That kind of “linear.” But yeah, within a zone, don’t quests generally direct you through the zone? Isn’t that how it’s always been?

3588

I just played that giant dude guarding the horses last nite…having never played a Death Knight, I enjoyed it. Just for the scale of it if nothing else.

/me admits n00bness, stands tall and n00bly proud!

3589

Yes and no. They’ve always had breadcrumb quests, but there were also plenty of quests you discovered out on your own exploring, or having multiple level appropriate zones to go out and find. In STV you might have done a couple of the hunter quests, then headed to another zone for a few levels, come back to finish off the rest for instance or the quest (I think it starts in STV, unsure) that sends you all over the world that results in a pack iirc.

Currently, quests are much more tightly bound to localized areas near the quest hub and you basically hop from hub to hub linearly through the zones and even zone to zone unless you make a conscience choice to break their predetermined flowchart based on your starting area.

Edit: Archeology, though, seems like a nice way to get people to go out and explore the world, even if they aren’t rewarded with new quests necessarily. I wouldn’t be surprised if they designed it that way to make up for the dramatically increased linearity of the content.

3590

Well yeah, except prior to the Sundering, you could go to an area and get 8 or so quests to kill stuff in the general vicinity of the quest hub. Sure, some of the kills were close to each other, but others would be off in a corner, or up a hill, or some such. You return to town and turn a bunch in, and some would have follow ups and others wouldn’t. Eventually you’d get a breadcrumb leading you to another area or to a dungeon.

Now, it seems you only have two or three quests. They often are in the same area. So you go, kill the two types of quest mobs and/or collect stuff on the ground, and return. You get two more quests, in a slightly further area. And repeat. And repeat. Eventually you get sent to the next mini quest hub.

So the first way “felt” a lot more open, because you typically had more options (especially when stuff is heavily camped).

As for not being able to leave the Worgen starting area, I’ve not been there, but for Death Knights, the entire area is phased, so you really can’t do anything until you finish the DK questline. Maybe the Worgen starting zone is the same way?

3591

Not only that, but the further away quests would often have you run past interesting locations and or isolated quests. So during one play through, you’d often go back and forth through parts of the zone doing, turning in, and discovering quests along the way.

It was certainly a more interesting, virtual world, style experience. With them adding mounts at such an earlier level… it’s curious their new design philosophy seems so hostile to that.

The current philosophy is a lot more episodic, I think to be friendlier to people with only an hour or so at a time to play, but also feels more contrived.

3592

Thanks for the help, all–I found the quest guy I had missed. He was where I thought he should be but had been so surrounded by people on giant flying things that that, and the lag on draw-in, had obscured his quest-giving-ness from my feeble vision.

3593

Uh, no. If you read my posts I think you’ll get an idea of what I expect or what my complaints are. They seemed to work OK for everyone else. Also, saying “most of these quests are the same” is not the same as saying “I demand every quest be unique.” I’m not sure whether you actually don’t understand that or are just being a tool. But the basic complaint is that the quest mechanics themselves are the same as the old game (with very few exceptions), and the linear progression is worse than the open-world feel of the old game. I guess you don’t see any difference, but I and a bunch of other people obviously do.

No, it’s not, because you’re not actually a worgen yet at level 1.

Awesome point! You win!

3594

Is that different now? I’m pretty sure there are still multiple level-appropriate zones, and I have run across quests in somewhat isolated places as well.

I’m not sure I see the distinction here. Sure, you can basically hop from hub to hub in current zones, but you could have done that back in STV too. It seems like you’re saying, “Back then, I could jump around and leave STV and come back later, but I can’t do that now unless I make a conscious decision to leave my current zone and come back later.” I don’t see the difference. But if you’re saying there should be more class-specific epic quests, I agree on that one.

3595

I prefer the new linearity. Walking to a remote corner for a quest and seeing cool secluded spots is rewarding… the first time. When you’re leveling your second character, that quest is just a pain in the ass, so you skip it in favor of… you guessed it, the linear, streamlined quests.

I think a good balance of Kill X and Gimmick quests is about 10:1, or 20:1 if we’re talking major gimmicks like the horrible vehicles.

I mean, think about it. You miss being led to cool secluded spots, and hate the newer, more linear design. Except the old quests led you to those cool secluded spots. Now exploration is actually about going off the beaten path, not about being led off the beaten path.

I’m sorry, but non-linear (or at least less linear) (Diku) MMOs died with WoW-style questing. Mob-grinding games like EQ made things less linear because < 5% of the quests in the game were actually worth doing, PLUS there was no shiny gold ! above anyone’s head.

The only totally non-linear experience I can think of is EVE, which is only non-linear due to the game being totally devoid of any content (by that I mean, they essentially give you the rulebook and the playing pieces and it’s the job of the players to come up with a story/“quests”/whatever).

This is one thing from EQ I really miss: A lengthy epic weapon quest for each class that rewarded a great item with a utility (typically a cast-on-use buff) that remained amazing even if a ‘better’ weapon was discovered later.

WoW always seemed to flirt with the idea. The original Sunken Temple class quests that rewarded your choice of several unique items, including a trinket with a unique effect. There was Benediction for Priests and Lok’Delar for Hunters, but unless I’m forgetting something, Blizzard never added any more class-specific weapon quests. Oh, and there’s Thunderfury, Sulfuras, Atiesh, Val’anyr and Shadowmourne, of course.

3596

I just disagree on the extent of “same as the old game,” since you seem to be criticizing quests for being similar to Wrath of the Lich King quests. Yes, some quests are going to be “ride this mount and bomb these things,” but you’re missing the point that many people never did those Outland quests in the first place. Plus, there is more to questing than just the literal quest mechanics. There is the storyline and the mood and the environment and the NPCs all wrapped around those quest mechanics. For example:

“Those frostsabers are getting too close! Go kill eight frostsabers.”: Boring.

“Those undead are invading our city! Go kill eight undead to drive them back and reduce their numbers!”: Better.

“Those undead are invading our city! Help our forces drive them back!” while you have armies of guards and soldiers battling and dying around you: Even better.

“We must take back our city! You must join our invading army and drive them back for good!” while a high-level NPC buffs you and you fight next to hundreds of soldiers against enemies many times more powerful than you: Even more better.

Get the idea? Yes, those are all “Kill X enemies” quests, but it feels much different when you are in the middle of a pitched battle, watching teammates fall left and right. Those are the things that are improved, not, “This is the same thing I did in the death knight starting area, BO-ring!”

Yes, it is an awesome point, because you start out as a human, then the story progresses until you end up a worgen. It’s progression. It’s actual plot development and change. It’s hard to criticize that by saying, “But why can’t I run off to Goldshire?” Well, because you can’t. You’re in a walled city that is being invaded. No one goes to Goldshire. Ever. Oh, and you’re about to die. Now, maybe you’d prefer to run off and have Mary Jenkins ask you to collect eight spider legs for her spider-leg soup, but I imagine you’re in the minority on that one.

3597

WoW had class-specific weapon quests, as well as others. I remember gathering a small raid just so I could get the quest to learn how to summon a Doomguard, much less completing the actual quest itself! And I was really excited to see the troll druid quests to get your animal forms. Here is a quick comparison between the old tauren druid quests and the new troll ones:

Tauren: “Follow this ghost wolf across the savannah. He will lead you to Genya, the Earth-Mother. After she shows you a vision, you will have to defeat the great Spirit Cat. When you have subdued his spirit, only then will you be able to harness his powers, and assume cat-form yourself.”

Troll: “Cat Form: 50 silver”

3598

Meh. I never much cared for RP nonsense to get basic abilities, often because that RP nonsense was just poorly designed.

Couple Examples:

I specifically never played a Shaman, despite wanting to, solely because of the Water Totem quest. To use any Water-class Totem, you had to do this world spanning ‘adventure’ of gathering water from specific places. Except you were supposed to do this without a mount, since it was a pre-40 quest. That started in the southernmost part of the Barrens. The closest flightpath was Crosscroads (back then). You had Spirit Wolf form, though!

Warlock pets and the dumb quests to “unlock” them. As an Undead Warlock, getting a Succubus at level 20 was a ton of fun because you had to go to the Wetlands and kill this man because his heart was pure because summoning a Succubus requires blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. To get to the Wetlands from Undercity, where the quest started, you got to do this walk (at 20 you likely had the flight path to Silverpine but probably didn’t have the Hillsbrad one and definitely didn’t have the Arathi one), without a mount:

Undercity -> Tirisfal Glades -> Hillsbrad Foothills (which at this point in the game’s life may as well have been a Battleground) -> Arathi Highlands (a level 25-30 zone, except to die a few times getting to the Wetlands bridge) -> Wetlands (fortunately the guy was right across the bridge… but if you wandered any further, you’d aggro Dwarven guards from a nearby quest hub and eat yet more durability damage!)

And then back, of course. I hope you rememberd to bind in UC!

Now, getting the ‘special’ Warlock spells (Ritual of Doom, Summon Infernal) required quests, and rightfully should have. They were supposed to be the Warlock’s epic weapon. Turns out both spells blew chunks, but it was the thought that counted. Seeing a Warlock drop an Infernal on the Alliance bridge in AV was scary! Of course, then seeing it turn around and three-shot him was hilarious.

My point is, the RP crap came off as a punishment or a pure cockblock way more often than it did an interesting piece of lore. I made a Blood Elf paladin and got him to 68 before I realized I never learned Resurrect. It required doing a level 10 (I think?) quest that was thirty boring minutes (at that level) of running back and forth just to train it. I ended up putting it on the back burner… and then totally forgetting about it.

3599

I have leveled more warlocks than I care to recall, butI gotta say I liked the special summoning quests. Yeah, it took a while but so what! And the best quest line I have ever done was the one to get the Warlock Dreadsteed at level 60. The final quest in Dire Maul with the bell, the book, and the wheel (or whatever they were!) was a triumphant moment that required some helpful guildmates or friends.

The only pet quest I really hated was for Orc Warlocks to get their Voidwalker, in a cave full of mobs, half of which had their OWN Voidwalkers. You seriously could not do that quest at level 10 by yourself. And to add insult to injury, the Undead Warlock Blueberry quest was fairly trivial.

Plus, my first character was a Shaman, who did all those silly totem quests too. Hmmm, maybe I’m sensing a pattern here…

3600

I hated the Dreadsteed quest when I had to go through that. So much work! So much collecting and time and money! Plus I had to get a group together to do the final quest (which was epic, by the way!).

But now? I appreciate it every time I use that mount. It looks cooler and runs faster* than every other mount I have. I wear it as a badge of pride.

*not really, but it feels like it.