I saw something similar about a day ago on Earthen Ring (where Horde usually controls the zone.) about 80 horde were trying to be on the bridge at just the right time for the flip. I think the devs should notice this behavior pretty quickly.

you can spam healing rain/chain heal and probably heal through almost any normal instance encounter with an ilvl 340 shaman, assuming you not wearing pvp gear and glyph out correctly.

it might kill your mana after every pull, but that’s what drink is for.

If you’re ilvl 340 you’ve probably been spending a fair amount of time in heroics, so uh

Good groups dragging you through stuff and lucky drops I’d imagine.

I’ve encountered some people who qued up for heroics that are shit terrible. They can’t CC, they can’t interrupt, they can’t even attack the tank’s target. If a pull is remotely hard, they end up leaving. They’re looking for someone to carry them like they were carried in non-heroics for easy loot.

Hopefully they won’t fix it too soon. The current honor grind is major pain in the ass on many BGs as you’ll spend more time in the queue than actually playing the BG and getting in to Tol Barad is nearly impossible.

I’m not really understanding the complaint about heroic difficulty. Yes, they’re now much harder than we’ve come to expect from 5-mans, but why are you running heroics if you don’t like the challenge? Unless you’re an achievement whore and are going after Glory of the Cataclysm Hero, the only reason to run heroics instead of normals is to gear up for raiding. If you don’t like spending multiple hours wiping in a 5-man, then you really will not enjoy running raids, so why do heroics?

I like Heroics, when they’re with my guild. I believe the majority of the complaints come from either pugging the whole heroic, or filling a slot or two with randoms.

Isn’t that sort of like asking why you’re doing sex if you didn’t WANT to have nipple clamps installed on your person? I like the part of raiding where a bunch of people are working together to totally murder a gigantic baby robot in the face and get some sort of strange whirring device that does a thing. I like the part of raiding where I get to find out neat stuff about the alleged origin of the universe. I don’t like the part of raiding where the computer repeatedly punches me in the face, particularly when it straps me into my chair and blindfolds me so that I can’t even see where I’m being punched from. Right now, there are some severe conflicts in Blizzard’s collective approach to dungeons. The tools (dungeon finder) and incentives (reward for doing randoms) are in place to do dungeons with at least average quality strangers. The dungeons themselves, however, are built in some cases to standards that that group simply can’t meet. It’s like that level in the first Quake where you can see the exit from the entrance across a gigantic pit of lava with a single pole sticking up out of the middle of it. You’re shown the reward, and there’s a big blinking neon sign directing you toward the reward but the mechanism for obtaining the reward is so obscenely difficult that accomplishing it will subconsciously drive you to murder all humans.

The solution, as many have observed, is to avoid the big neon sign - in this case, by raising the gear requirements. In a game, if you go out of your way to allow people to do a stupid thing that they probably shouldn’t do (by teleporting them directly into it on request, for example), people are going to think they’re supposed to do it. The game needs to be tweaked to stop saying no with its mouth and yes with its coy little notes slipped under your plate.

But gear isn’t why people are failing. You could give Joe Q Lackwit my gear or Aaron’s gear or my guild tank’s gear and he’d still be a liability. Pretending that raising the gear limit would make a difference is silly.

Shooting from the hip here:

One problem that may be driving people to heroics as soon as they meet the minimal gearscore is that for some classes certain slots are just plain hard to fill outside of a heroic. Let’s say we go with “average iLevel 333 to enter heroics.” There are precisely 2 iLevel 333+ tanking helms I’m aware of outside of heroics. One comes from Wildhammer at Revered, one drops in Halls of Origination, and uhh that’s it. Bracers are a similar situation - you can get them in HoO, or at Ramkahen Exalted, and that’s it. So if you’re looking to upgrade those slots, it’s not a matter of “run lots of dungeons,” it’s “run one specific dungeon over and over and over and over again and hope the RNG doesn’t fuck you” or “grind tons of rep.” Right now one of the three level 85 non heroics I can get in a random has literally no upgrades for me; the other one iirc has a sidegrade. Only one of the three normals that drop 333 loot has upgrades.

IMO Blizzard could have done a better job of distributing the loot in certain slots; that might make this situation a little bearable.

I think wild hammer is one of the easier faction to get rep with, at least that’s with dragonmaw which is the horde version, there are so many dailies plus you gain rep with them with quests in TH as well.

The quest drops really should have been upgraded, that’s for sure. The big questlines in Burning Crusade awarded gear that was very serviceable, whereas only the final questlines in Twilight Highlands and Uldum even reward 333 gear, and well… only for a very limited set of specs.

I think that if they had done a better job with quest gear (maybe some more 333 pieces for various specs, maybe a 333 Relic of your choice, etc), maybe made more dailies for different factions (or even another set of dailies that rewarded you with rep for a faction of your choice), there would be less pressure to jump straight into Heroics and you could wait on that for a day or two while you got Revered with your various rep factions and picked up some more 333 pieces.

Last guy in GB is cake, normal or heroic once you learn the trick. Namely, dps can’t suck when killing ads and the tank holds the boss roughly in the center, especially if you have melee. Thus when all in the vortex, dps can wail on him.

This is all very true. I had one hell of a time getting tanky plate shoulders as well. As far as I could tell, if you want something that’s ilevel 333, you’re stuck running Grim Batol over and over again until it drops and isn’t won by the idiot DK who likes to stand in the fire.

There also doesn’t seem to be a single proper tank gun outside of raids. On the other hand, if you run heroic Deadmines, you may notice that it has two agility cloaks in the very same instance.

I agree with this, I’m currently stuck with green bracers, the only upgrade is in Grim Batol or from PvP.

I’ve been using the Bloodied Pyrium crafted plate to fill in the gaps, till I get a proper 333 or better item to replace it.

With the ridiculous state of Tol Barad honor rewards, it is easy to pick up some ilevel 352 PvP gear to fill gaps. Sure, there is resilience on it, and that cannot be reforged, but the other stats are good enough to help make up the difference. For example, I picked up the Bloodthirsty Gladiator’s Relic of Salvation for my holy paladin. It would be nicer if it had haste or crit, but at least it has decent spirit and intellect.

This.

With my friends we run a DK Tank, Holy Paladin, Warlock and Hunter (though it’s typically just one or the other due to their play times). So LFD is pairing us with two DPS on average.

Almost every single DPS we get has at least one (very often more, or all) of the following problems:

-Doesn’t know fights beyond the first boss or two. This is undoubtedly the most common problem and leads to someone in our group having to type out an explanation for every fight every time. It’s frustrating and infuriating and I can tell you exactly why it happens: 45 minute DPS queues just to get a group that falls apart after a wipe. I mean, if you’re a tank, why stick with this group of “noobs” when you could just re-queue and be back in the action instantly?

-Terrible DPS. This is almost always due to bad gear, because doing Heroic-level DPS with appropriate gear isn’t (with a couple exceptions) hard. Again, this stems from 45-minute DPS queues. You can’t have the gear if you can’t run the dungeons.

-Doesn’t know how to CC. 1-80 (arguably to 84) you are never required to use CC in PvE. Ever. Never ever ever. I have gotten more Shaman that don’t know what Bind Elements is than I can count. Mages typically know what sheep does but do things like cast it on DoT-ed targets. Warlocks aren’t familiar with banish and typically don’t glyph Fear. Priests rarely know what Shackle is. Druids don’t realize how good Root is. Rogues don’t have Improved Sap, or realize they have to be the very first to CC due to Sap’s out-of-combat rule. Etc etc etc.

-Has a total sense of entitlement. It’s astonishing that DPS will talk shit when they have a 45 minute queue. Somewhat frequently a DPS will zone in and say something like “lol DK tank” and proceed to bitch about how awful DK tanking is whenever I drop beneath 50%. You realize I can kick you at whim, right? You realize my queues are instant and yours are almost an hour, correct?

-Just really can’t do what you ask/tell them to. Ask a Hunter to drop a frost slick trap? Nah. Ask the Druid to root the moon? Nope. Can we get Gift of the Wild so we can stack it with Might? Dead silence.

-Know nothing about their utility skills. Good fucking luck getting someone with Remove Curse on their bar, or someone that helps the healer dispel/remove poisons.

I liked Heroics at first because they were “hard.” You had to CC! You couldn’t AOE everything! You can die even if everyone is at their keyboards and trying! How exciting! And the noobs that say Heroics should be easier need to l2p, lolz.

Now, after doing quite a few, I see the glaring problems with how Heroics are set up.

-There needs to be a higher ilvl requirement. 331 seems like a good spot.

-“But what about PVP gear? What if I can’t get 331 despite the countless quests and easily-raised factions at cap that reward 333s?” This is pretty simple too: You have to do the normal version of a dungeon before you are allowed to do the heroic. This would solve, or at least mitigate, plenty of the problems listed above.

-As an extension of the last point, there needs to be normal versions of level 80 Deadmines/SFK.

-Some heroic stuff just plain needs to be made easier. I hate to say it, but it’s true:

*If you’re going to put raid-level mechanics in 5-man boss fights, you need to make it pretty damn clear what the hell is going on so players can figure it out in 1-2 wipes instead of trying to read buff/debuff tooltips and combat logs mid-fight. Imagine trying to figure out SFK’s Baron Ashbury without background knowledge – the interrupt timing required, the counter-intuitive healing method, the burn phase – it’s a raid-level encounter which would have taken 5-10 wipes before you could formulate a solid strategy back in the day.

*Loosen the requirements on group comp for some encounters. Again in SFK, Commander Springvale is next to impossible without a very specific group composition. Grim Batol’s Erudax is very, very difficult without plenty of snares and strong burst DPS for his adds.

*Tune back the gimmicks. Heroic Deadmines, I’m looking at you and your last 3 boss “experiences.” Vortex Pinnacle’s Altarius: are 50 cyclones really necessary for a “fun” encounter?

*Does one mistake from one player really necessitate punishment with a full wipe? If the tank fails to dodge a Shatter or Ground Slam, does the whole group really need to die? If a DPS fails to snare an add, does the whole group really need to die? If you can’t kill the dream-worgen in time, does the whole group really need to get deathtouched?

I dunno, it’s just pretty silly at this point that 5-man heroic bosses have more complicated mechanics than raid bosses from prior expansions. As my girlfriend creeps ever closer to 85, I begin to dread the fact that she’ll expect to jump right into heroics like in WOTLK. In today’s heroics, she’ll get yelled at and harassed when she does bad DPS/misses traps/whatever.

The worst part will be having to explain to her that she shouldn’t – or just can’t – do heroics. She wants to be a Beastmaster. She wants to have cool pets. She doesn’t like Survival and doesn’t want to play it.

As a result, she will do terrible damage and at this point it’s just not possible to carry 3-4k heroic DPS yet. I wince a little when she asks me to tell her how her damage is – she’s always dead last by a large margin.

If she’d spec Survival and press 3-4 buttons in sequence until one gets a shiny border, she’d do double that. But that playstyle is boring. It takes a non-gamer telling you matter-of-factly that it’s boring to really realize that, yeah, it really is. She wants a big spirit bear instead, or a pretty wolf, or whatever. And it’s hard to tell someone who actually wants to play the game to enjoy it – and not just overcome challenges – that they’re not allowed to play with the big kids until they accept boredom.

I’m sorry, I don’t understand how raising the required gear level removes any of those problems bar maybe “doesn’t know what the boss does”. Player gear != player skill.

Rogues don’t have Improved Sap

What exactly do you mean by this?