Don’t kid yourself into thinking they were “struggling”. World-first guilds like Paragon are looking to down bosses as quickly and efficiently as possible. While it’s certainly disappointing there are still so many encounters that heavily favor ranged dps, it’s pretty dumb to shelve your rogue because of it. Besides, how soon is your guild going to be doing heroic modes anyway?
anarch
4442
If you don’t know how to use your CC, don’t pull more than 5k DPS (in heroics) and die to simple things like standing in the fire then you are another obstacle the 4 unfortunate people grouped with you will have to over come.
We have all grouped with that type of player and it’s difficult and frustrating to carry them through some of the heroic encounters. It has nothing to do with being elitist and more to do with 1 person ruining the gaming experience of 4 others.
We’ve been farming heroics pretty heavily for the last 2-3 weeks, so gear shouldn’t be an issue for us, and we’ve also checked the strat guides at TankSpot. I was hoping for some helpful tips that weren’t mentioned in the videos, but maybe that’s the kind of thing we’ll have to pick up by experiencing the encounters first-hand.
How does the difficulty of the new raids compare to T7 content in Wrath? I’m assuming they’re more challenging than Sarth/Naxx/Maly were in the early days of WotLK; are they on par with Ulduar bosses when that zone was newly released? Easier? Harder?
I believe this is all true except for the last sentence. The question was whether we hated it when players use insulting terms to refer to other players. I have been in frustrating groups with one or more very poor players. Sometimes the person doesn’t know any better (maybe they will accept advice); sometimes the person just doesn’t care (then it’s time to grit it out or leave). None of this requires me to insult them, and the terms “bads” and “baddies” are not generally used in the WoW community as a simple descriptive.
rei
4445
For our guild, to begin raiding, the RL has mandated a minimum of 10k DPS.
What benchmark is he using? Most heroic bosses have some kind of gimmick that either significantly boosts dps (e.g. Rahj) or reduces damage output because players are busy interrupting, constantly switching targets to kill adds, running around, etc. Is there a good Patchwerk-style “tank & spank” fight that can be used to objectively measure dps?
Not to mention group make-up can make a huge difference. As a Rogue, my personal dps is going to be much higher in a group where I have buffs from, for example, an Enhancement Shaman (Windfury, Unleashed Rage, Strength of Earth, Heroism) and Cat Druid (Mangle, Leader of the Pack) than if the other dps in the group are a Shadow Priest and Destruction Warlock.
idrisz
4447
first boss in dead mine pretty much tank and spank, it does require you to avoid fire which is extremely simple, you even get an achievement call “ready for raid” if you don’t get hit by the spinning fire.
also using patchwerk to measure dps is entirely unreasonable, since almost every boss fight require some form of interrupt/movement/killing adds now.
first boss in dead mine pretty much tank and spank, it does require you to avoid fire which is extremely simple, you even get an achievement call “ready for raid” if you don’t get hit by the spinning fire.
That would work for ranged, but it’s not an ideal fight to measure melee dps because they’ll often be forced to attack from the front (causing parries) while they’re moving to avoid the fire. For Assassination and Subtlety Rogues, it’s especially bad because they won’t be able to use their primary attack (Backstab) when they’re forced in front of the boss, resulting in a huge dps loss.
What about Anraphet in Halls of Origination? That fight is pretty much a single-target dps burn with only slight movement required to avoid standing in Alpha Beams.
also using patchwerk to measure dps is entirely unreasonable, since almost every boss fight require some form of interrupt/movement/killing adds now.
In the early days of Wrath, everyone used Patchwerk as the dps benchmark fight because it had the simplest mechanics; Festergut later took over that role when ICC was released. Those bosses were the closest thing that existed to a target dummy in a raid environment, hence why they were chosen as dps benchmarks.
We just had our first real raid last night and was able to get Omnitron down in 7 attempts. We did try the encounter a couple weeks ago, but it was more of a “let’s see how hard it is” type of deal since people weren’t geared, enchanted, flasked, etc. There’s a lot going on in that fight and it seems really overwhelming at first, but once people got used to avoiding the avoidable stuff and interrupting hurty things, it wasn’t too bad. One of the healers died twice during our successful attempt, so it’s not exactly smooth sailing yet, but a win’s a win. The five dps members ended the fight at 10K to 13K dps each.
We only got 2 real attempts in on Magmaw as one of the healers started having internet problems, but man there’s a lot of raid damage going out in that fight. The mechanics are pretty simple, but people were just getting demolished very quickly.
10k is such a low threshold it safely pads against things like group comp, and most people who have serious plans to raid know what sorts of fights to use as benchmarks.
If my friends and I get dealt random Deadmines in an LFD (which is very frequent due to how lazy people are about finding entrances), we typically leave. The “old” dungeon Heroics are WAY harder than the new dungeon Heroics (LUL SPRINGVALE), plus the end of the dungeon is so thoroughly awful that even if you make it all the way, the nightmare phase (we call it Inception) is a buggy shitshow that no one understands from an RP or mechanical perspective or enjoys in the least. Expect no one to know anything about the spider phase (kill the boss, ignore the spiders), AT LEAST 2-3 deaths on the Mario section, and a likely wipe on the Worgen section because everyone is to confused by what the hell to do (thinking it’s an RP scene or something) to kill them in time.
Then, when the real fight starts, expect AT LEAST one person to die for lack of knowing where the ropes spawn, or for trying to click one that someone else has taken, or being in a form that can’t use the rope (Cat Druids are doing to die – granted this makes me happy), or just sheer misunderstanding (jumping off the side of the boat instead of grabbing a rope, which often results in the whole thing bugging out).
Granted, if you pull off the final phase perfectly, it looks cool as hell. Very much like a huge action scene from a swashbuckling movie. But something is lost (or gained?) by watching a Cat druid trying in vain to click the rope, hopping up and down in frustration, and then getting burned alive.
The inception/nightmare part, however, is so awful, poorly designed, buggy, and unfun to the extent that I’m not even sure Blizzard designed – or even green-lighted – it before release.
That is one of the best fights in the game. If you have people who don’t know the fight, explain it beforehand. Even with a group who had never seen it before the only part that confused was the goblin and his spiders, and that was resolved after 2 wipes making for a relatively simple learning curve.
Also, you can just take the teleporter to the correct part of the fight if you die.
I think a lot of people have been trained by wrath to never expect a challenge, and are unwilling to explain fights and devise new strategies when they fail.
So skip him? Or learn to interrupt, one of the two works just fine.
and a likely wipe on the Worgen section because everyone is to confused by what the hell to do (thinking it’s an RP scene or something) to kill them in time.
I’ve never wiped on the Worgen section. Ever. And I’ve done random LFD Deadmines pugs a dozen times (not counting ones which couldn’t kill Ripsnarl).
Then, when the real fight starts, expect AT LEAST one person to die for lack of knowing where the ropes spawn, or for trying to click one that someone else has taken, or being in a form that can’t use the rope (Cat Druids are doing to die – granted this makes me happy), or just sheer misunderstanding (jumping off the side of the boat instead of grabbing a rope, which often results in the whole thing bugging out).
I have yet to see a single person die to that.
I think maybe you just have a confirmation bias and like complaining. That, or I’m actually in a completely different LFD environment than you, because you’re in a specially-crafted microcosm designed by Blizzard for you personally.
sinnick
4454
My summary of this thread:
- Person: I find encounter X hard.
- Others: You must be playing wrong then, because that encounter is easy.
- Repeat.
I think this proves that WoW is a game for all sorts ;).
Athryn
4455
I’m just glad you can use Divine Shield on the lightning section of heroic Deadmines now. :p
Ranulf
4456
Anyone know what the basic progression is supposed to be for the first 3 raids? Or are they all much the same difficulty/gear wise (besides tol barad)?
I’ve heard they’re all tuned to be relatively equal in terms of difficulty with the last boss of each being harder than any of the earlier bosses. I have no idea if that’s true or not, though. We’re starting with Bastion of Twilight, but I’m not sure how my guild’s officers arrived at that decision.
Nice to see they hot fixed the hotfix… so instead of 1800 honor for winning as attacker, you get 360. (I love how they said the original change was “to encourage people to show up as the attacker for a better battle”… well you fucked THAT up Blizz)
idrisz
4459
I love when people tries to jump over the lightning at the lightning section of the nightmare phase.
Also during the rope at very end, if you click on the rope the moment it spawn, you will die to the fire, because you swing out and come back right into the fire before it dies out, happen to me like twice.
ogre phase isn’t bad since it require the range to move as well, while melee can actually move while dps, range can’t.
I ran it a few time with my mutilate rogue, 10k+ easily, the boss in HoO cast enough void circle on the ground where the melee can’t even melee the boss anymore, happens quite frequently.
Tol Barad is terribly broken as it’s very difficult for the faction on offense to capture all three nodes. Destroy the towers only give extra time instead of giving a buff/debuff like in Wintergrasp. All the defensive faction has to do is turtle one node.
