4601

I’m absolutely thinking about it. I took a 3-4 day break and the spell was broken. I went from excited to get my arena 2H right on Tuesday to totally ambivalent. Now I just log on to do JC dailies.

I have a bunch of great games to play from the Steam sale. Plus, not having a screaming headache from doing Heroics is pretty damn awesome.

The takehome point is that I’m starting to run out of reasons to continue playing Cata. But that’s not unexpected. Burnouts almost exactly a month after release is completely typical.

4602

The reason Imp Scorch is better is because it procs Hot Streak and Impact, two important sources of fire mage DPS. Clearcasting doesn’t do that, and while it might solve the OOM problem more efficiently from a mana standpoint, overall using it would result in a DPS loss vs scorch weaving.

4603

Wait what? The words you are saying make no sense.

Imp Scorch doesn’t provide you with a new spell to cast. How does casting Scorch instead of more Fireballs increase your DPS?

4604

No. You were saying that a fire mage should cast Clearcasting instead of talenting into Imp. Scorch for mana improvement, Aaron. Now you want to change the discussion. Yes, if a fire mage could cast Fireball throughout a fight, then a fire mage would do that, obviously. But a fire mage will go OOM in pre-raid gear before a boss fight is over, even using mana gems. Without mana, a mage’s DPS is zero. So scorch weaving appears to both solve that problem while still resulting in Hot Streak and Impact procs, keeping the DPS of the mage up. Clearcasting will keep the mage with mana, but not provide the procs, so the DPS could be affected. Taking the two points from Imp. Scorch to put into Clearcasting only provides a 6% chance of the next spell being mana-free, which really isn’t sufficient to compensate for the likely OOM state a fire mage will be in.

4605

Checking out the revamped zones with alts seems to be keeping my interest, as well as doing my dailies and crafting with my warlock. I definitely see my interest waning soon but because of the revamp of 1-60 I’m probably going to end up sticking around longer than I did with Wrath.

Btw, I really like the way the Cape of Stranglethorn (lower STV) culminates now. That’s a much better use of phasing than what they’ve done with he post Cataclysm 80+ zones.

4606

I only made it a couple of weeks into the xpac. The large number of new games that I bought during the Steam/Amazon sales doesn’t help, since I’d mostly rather be playing those than chain-running heroics.

I’m sure I’ll be back at some point, but just for now NWN2 and Divine 2 and the Gothics and Fallout New Vegas are holding all of my attention.

4607

Hey high five buddy! Same story here, except for me it’s Dragon Age, Mafia 2, and Darksiders.

4608

Okay, now I’m really confused. I thought Clearcasting was a proc off of any spellcast? E.g., that you would cast Fireball, and have a 10% chance of the next spell not casting any mana. How does a Mage cast Clearcasting?

Yes, if a fire mage could cast Fireball throughout a fight, then a fire mage would do that, obviously. But a fire mage will go OOM in pre-raid gear before a boss fight is over, even using mana gems. Without mana, a mage’s DPS is zero. So scorch weaving appears to both solve that problem while still resulting in Hot Streak and Impact procs, keeping the DPS of the mage up.

I understand this.

Clearcasting will keep the mage with mana, but not provide the procs, so the DPS could be affected.

This is what I don’t understand. Of course Clearcasting provides the Mage with procs/DPS. It provides him with exactly one Fireball worth of procs/DPS per Fireball made free by Clearcasting.

Taking the two points from Imp. Scorch to put into Clearcasting only provides a 6% chance of the next spell being mana-free, which really isn’t sufficient to compensate for the likely OOM state a fire mage will be in.

In the parses I’ve seen from my Guild (and note, this may be just because of the fight, or I don’t know what), the Mages cast between 50 and 60 Scorches through a raid fight. They had between 12 and 20 Clearcasting procs on those fights.

By my napkin math, 3/3 Clearcasting would result in their having been able to do more DPS (assuming they went OOM) than 1/3 and 2/2 Imp Scorch, because every Fireball made free by Clearcasting is twice as much mana as a Scorch made free by Imp Scorch. You therefore only should need between 25 and 30 free Fireballs to match Imp Scorch (while getting a tiny bit more DPS, because Fireball is more DPS than Scorch), and if 1/3 Clearcasting is giving you between 12 and 20, shouldn’t 3/3 give you anywhere between 30 and 50, by these logs?

I figure the numbers might change depending on the fight, with fights with a lot of movement (Atremedes) being more Scorch-friendly than comparatively stand-and-burn fights like … uh, Halfus, maybe?

4609

You would have a 6% chance of the next Fireball not costing any mana if you moved the 2 talents from Improved Scorch to Clearcasting. You will have to find another talent point to get to 10%, and 10% will not be enough to be able to cast a fireball throughout a boss fight without running out of mana. You can cast exactly one additional fireball per ten fireballs, that won’t substantially affect your ability to cast fireballs. With Scorch weaving, you should be able to cast at least 3-4 fireballs, along with getting Hot Streak and Impact procs.

I don’t know that you understand how Hot Streak and Impact work. Hot Streak, which is the most important one, cause the mage to be able to cast a 100% mana free instant pyroblast. Pyroblast does by far the most burst damage of fire mage’s fire spells. Impact allows for a free resetting of Fire Blast, plus an AOE fire effect.

Hot Streak and Fire Blast procs off of crits, same as Arcane Missiles which you give up when you take the Hot Streak talent.

Re-do your calculations using the possibility of Hot Streaks instead of simply looking at it as a mana deficiency problem. This is what EJ has done, and is why they recommend Improved Scorch instead of Clearcasting.

4610

The standard EJ Fire spec only uses 1/2 Pyromania because of the current bug with it, so there’s your third point, which gets you to 3/3 (there’s already 1/3, which is why people already have Clearcasting procs in WOL parses).

I don’t know that you understand how Hot Streak and Impact work. Hot Streak, which is the most important one, cause the mage to be able to cast a 100% mana free instant pyroblast. Pyroblast does by far the most burst damage of fire mage’s fire spells. Impact allows for a free resetting of Fire Blast, plus an AOE fire effect.

Hot Streak and Fire Blast procs off of crits, same as Arcane Missiles which you give up when you take the Hot Streak talent.

Re-do your calculations using the possibility of Hot Streaks instead of simply looking at it as a mana deficiency problem. This is what EJ has done, and is why they recommend Improved Scorch instead of Clearcasting.

I know exactly how Hot Streak and Impact work. Thanks. I’ll try to explain what I’m talking about again here:

If during the course of a Fight, my Mage friend has cast 40 Scorches, he has saved 40 * 8% base mana if he has 2/2 Imp Scorch.

If during that fight he had instead had 3/3 Clearcasting, one would expect that he would have proc’d Clearcasting three times as many times (minus overwritten procs, plus 1% because the third point gives you 4%, from 6% to 10%, but let’s set that aside for now).

Let’s say he proc’d Clearcasting fifteen times on the fight where he cast a total of 40 Scorches, and let us assume that he hit zero mana at the very end of the fight (ideal case, because otherwise, he should have cast fewer Scorches).

With 2/2 Imp Scorch, this saved him 40 * 8 base mana total, and allowed him to cast until the kill.

With 3/3 Clearcasting, he would have expected to get around 30 more Clearcasting procs, saving him (assuming each of them was used on Fireball) 30 * 16% base mana total, significantly higher than Imp Scorch, which would have allowed him to chain-cast Fireball throughout the fight.

There are two variables I can see that I haven’t accounted for. One of them is the incidence of Clearcasting overwriting itself, which I can’t calculate, and the other is the various spell costs (Flamestrike is 30%, Blast Wave is 7%, Fire Blast is 21%, Combustion seems to be free, and so is Pyroblast, so neither of those should consume Clearcasting), which I also can’t really account for other than to go through the parses again, average out the costs, and treat Clearcasting as a passive cost-reduction, which is how it was calculated in the Wrath/BC spreadsheets.

What am I missing here?

4611

Your calculations still aren’t including the chance of Hot Streak, which is basically why a group would bring a fire mage. Chain casting Fireball throughout the fight using Clearcasting to sustain mana will almost certainly result in lower DPS overall than scorch weaving which gains additional Hot Streak procs. I have no idea how your mages are geared, but crit is an important stat, and if you gear for crit (after INT and hit), then the Hot Streak procs will provide significant DPS as well as less mana spent. This is what EJ is recommending, and frankly I’d like to see you present your hypothesis there, as I’m not a simulcraft expert, I only go by what I read as well as what makes sense to me. I have Hot Streak set up so that I can never miss a proc, and I know that the more Hot Streak procs I get, the easier the fights are.

4612

I have no idea why you wouldn’t get just as many procs chain-casting Fireball. Do you weave in Scorch during burn-phases? According to EJ, chain-casting Fireball gives you better DPS than weaving Scorch, but Scorchweaving gives you less mana spent.

I’ve registered on EJ, but I have a full day’s wait before I can post. ;)

4613

OK leave a link when you post your hypothesis and I’ll track the discussion. Be 100% sure it hasn’t already been discussed otherwise you’ll just get banned. EJ is very very strict about what can be posted, they only want posts that add to the discussion.

4614

Sigh, I really didn’t need to read that tonight. Looks like my druid is a tank only now. I’m not sure I have the energy to level up my priest or dual spec my pally from ret to holy and learn how to pally heal.

4615

When games get this complicated I am reminded why I generally prefer single player games.

My Cataclysm experience was diluted yesterday during a level 30ish PUG where everyone else was blaming my newbie warrior for not holding aggro while they were all decked out in BoA gear and hitting everything else but the mob I was MTing plus basically pulling without me.

Maybe I’m not a good tank but I know when I’m not having fun.

4616

Scorch-Weaving does more than save mana – it gives a mage 100% control over mana expenditure. In a class so dependent upon the random number generator for procs, that reliability matters. In particular, a proper job of Scorch-Weaving ensures that during burn phases, you will have enough mana for Fireball spam ;)

As a whole, the Improved Scorch and Firestarter talents allow a mage to retain abut 90% of max DPS, while remaining fully mobile and preserving mana. Scorch, Living Bomb, Combustion, both AoE’s and Hot Streak procs are all either instant or movement-friendly. That doesn’t directly address your specific question about mana alone, but it’s the real beauty of the class. There are many times when you don’t want to stop and wait for a fireball to cast.

4617

I won’t tank unless absolutely necessary) (despite my two highest characters being a 85 warrior and and around l50 pally) . Tanking is Warcraft’s version of a job. No matter what you do, you’re going to get yelled at for things that aren’t your fault, and you have to multitask out the ass (keep aggro up, doing all the specials to maintain threat… Oh! The Mage just hit a guy and pulled him, gotta bring him to me… Damn! That enemy spell caster is tagging me, need to break LOS… GET BACK HERE MOB, Don’t chase the rogue…) all while praying the healer isn’t having a mental lapse)

4618

Yeah, tanking and healing right now are pretty thankless jobs, which is why the queue is like 45 minutes for DPS.

4619

I still like healing. Maybe I’m weird :)

We wiped about 5 times on that guy who summons the dragon in Heroic Grim Batol on Saturday night. Finally our guest tank, an acquaintance of the guild leader, had to go so we brought in our regular guild tank and downed him in one. So I now have seen just what mediocre tanking is like.

He wasn’t horrible, but he was bad enough to make it too hard for the rest of us. Two things he did wrong:

  1. Failed to position the boss right. Which meant people were constantly getting hit by the elementals or the breath weapon
  2. Failed to use his cooldowns correctly, making it challenging for me to keep him topped, thus preventing me from helping others.

In fairness to him, we also had some bad luck with adds spawning close.

4620

Tanking isn’t hard, it’s just not mindless like dpsing where you zone out and hit 3 buttons and agro everything under the sun and completely ignore all game mechanics and knowledge of anything. I can teach someone how to be a solid tank inside of a day if they’re not a complete retard and they’ll end up realizing it’s rather easy with a few simple tips and tricks of the trade that you develop over the years.

The only thing I hate about tanking (been tanking since day 1 wow) is that people expect you to tell them everything in this game in regards to how an encounter works. This includes knowing how DPS are supposed to use things like the foe reaper 5000 even though you never set foot in the machine as a tank. It’s quite ridiculous, really.