World of Warcraft: Cataclysm

[MarchHare]

My 2nd issue is that there is no decent OH weapon other than daggers for Combat rogues right now.

How is that an issue? The old weapon specialization talents are gone, so there’s no gameplay reason not to use a fast dagger in your OH and a slow sword/mace/fist/axe in your MH.

The rogue I had today in the group pulled 4k though I’m not sure if he was good or not (with a hunter also pulling 8k it didn’t matter much).

That’s awfully low. My rogue (currently Combat spec, but the numbers were similar when I was Mutilate) does between 10-14k dps on most 5-man heroic bosses depending on the specific fight and group composition.

[anarch]

My 2nd issue is that there is no decent OH weapon other than daggers for Combat rogues right now.
A rogue without decent weapons is again not fun and I always used my DKP on my weapons as they make or break the class.
If you go assassination you won’t have that problem though as plenty of daggers are available.

I’ve seen this complaint from a few rogues. Cata removed specialization so the type of weapon in your MH/OH should be purely based on the DPS/spd of the weapon. Does the aesthetics of having sword/sword matter that much to you?

[JM1]

I’m not sure “don’t play melee” is that much of a great suggestion. Certainly playing a more survivable melee class is totally feasible. I’m adoring my Enhancement Shaman, and we’re doing fine with our DKs and Fury Warriors.

edit:

you can buy epic offhand pvp weapon in 4 arena wins.

Really? Actually 4 wins? Because, uh, an epic offhand for my Shaman would be some monstrous DPS boost.

[anarch]

That’s awfully low. My rogue (currently Combat spec, but the numbers were similar when I was Mutilate) does between 10-14k dps on most 5-man heroic bosses depending on the specific fight and group composition.

That seems right to me. I play a muti rogue (mostly il333 with a few 346/359 pieces) and pull around ~12k on the typical boss, ~25k on AOE trash, and 8k+ on normal trash packs.

[idrisz]

Really? Actually 4 wins? Because, uh, an epic offhand for my Shaman would be some monstrous DPS boost.

my rogue.

can’t find the cost online, but you can check it in atlasloot addon, but it’s 750 conquest points, you get 1300+ a week by winning 5 arenas.

the dagger I got.

p.s.

I can’t find a slow MH heroic weapon drop for the life of me, so stuck with at 1.4 speed one.

[intruder]

I’ve seen this complaint from a few rogues. Cata removed specialization so the type of weapon in your MH/OH should be purely based on the DPS/spd of the weapon. Does the aesthetics of having sword/sword matter that much to you?

Probably sounds odd but yes it does matter.
The animation of an undead male rogue with dagger OH is hilariously sad.
With a sword or axe in OH you see a certain kind of “power” behind it that simply is missing with a dagger (it looks like some extreme stretching of my left body side is needed to hit the mob with the dagger taking away any sense of damage dealt / force of impact).
Now this might be a small thing but I see this animation thousands of times when playing a few hours.

However my main point is the massive amount of aoe damage and ok I will take a look at the Feint Glyph and see if it could help me overcome this a bit.

[idrisz]

feint already reduce aoe damage by 50%, but with glyph, your feint cost nothing, so basically you can spam it whenever it’s up.

[JM1]

Cheers idrisz. Looks like I’d better start being nice to some of our more PVP-friendly guildies…

[idrisz]

don’t start a team with people who’s already having another arena team, everyone have their own personal arena rating. if you join someone’s team, basically expect to get carry or get your ass kicked.

it’s easiest if you just find some guildie who doesn’t do arena at all to start a team with, it’s insanely easy to win 5 battles, the team I started was call gimme epixxs, and we have a crappy team comp, unholy dk/mut rogue/elemental shaman, and we still manage to win 5 relative easily. none of us had pvp gear or pvp talent spec too.

it’s 3 weeks for the epic 2hander which is what the dk is in for, 2 weeks if you want a main hand weapon, and 1 week for offhand.

If you start a team tonight, and win 5 matches, then do another 5 tomorrow, you can get a main hand epic, since arena reset on tuesday too.

[MarchHare]

I’m not sure that PvP dagger is actually better for Mutilate PvE builds than an ilvl 346 blue would be. Most of Assassination’s damage comes from poisons, Envenom, Rupture, and Venomous Wounds. Physical damage from white melee swings and Mutilate are relatively low (and the contribution from your OH attacks is even lower because you don’t have Ambidexterity), so you might be better off with a PvE dagger with stats like Mastery, Hit, and Haste Rating to enhance your poisons and Envenoms.

[idrisz]

I believe there is a discussion on EJ, I believe the DPS is much bigger rating compare to other rating.

also the offhand epic shiv is currently rated the best pre raid offhand for combat as well.

[MarchHare]

I believe there is a discussion on EJ, I believe the DPS is much bigger rating compare to other rating.

also the offhand epic shiv is currently rated the best pre raid offhand for combat as well.

http://elitistjerks.com/f78/t110134-assassination_guide_cata/

From that link, each point of OH dps is worth the same as roughly 1.04 attack power. The delta between the dps on that dagger (462.1) and a heroic Barim’s Main Gauche (409.4) is 52.7.

For stats, the PvP dagger has 97 crit rating and 97 resilience. Resilience is worthless for PvE, so only the crit rating gives any benefit to you. Barim’s Main Gauche has 86 crit rating and 86 mastery.

In total, the PvP dagger is a net gain of 13 crit rating and 52.7 OH dps but a loss of 86 mastery rating. Using the conversion ratings in that EJ thread, 13 crit and 52.7 OH dps are worth a total of 66.51 EP; 86 mastery rating is wroth 111.8 EP, so the PvE blue is quite a bit better.

[Mordrak]

Has the Insidious staff from baradin tokens always been 51.5 dps? I did a double take when I went to go buy it at the minus 400+ dps compared to my Very Manly staff.

I hope they fix that, not that it matters all that much for a caster… but still. If I buy it now, and they correct the dps on the weapon, it will affect my copy (since I’m assuming it’s just a reference) correct?

[BigWeather]

Great feedback everyone, thanks a million!

it’s not bad for rogue since you have sprint on 1 minute cd now.

plus as assassination, position doesn’t matter as much as sub until below 35%, since white damage is low on your total dps and you get energy refund if your skills are parry/dodge/missed. envenom actually still give you the buff even if you miss the attack, doesn’t refresh slice and dice though, but you get energy back, and still keep all the combo points.

Mainly was worried about frontal attacks and parries, but you are right that DPS-wise it isn’t critical (until < 35% and the talent kicks in).

that’s tank’s fault, tank can actually move the boss during the casting of shadow gale, it’s up to tank to look for shadow gale center, and starting to move boss towards that location before the gale is done casting and boss goes into channeling.

because duke AKA Lobster Man takes 100% more damage during the shadow gale.

Also you don’t need to worry about blitz at all as melee on the first boss, because blitz doesn’t hit in a line but it’s a target aoe on target player.

as melee you need to worry about ground siege, but it’s really easy to avoid though, plus even if you don’t avoid it, it’s only 35k damage, really easy to heal through.

I’ll suggest that next time (tank moving mob to eye) – great tips. I still hate for the healer to have to heal me at all, if I can help it, though – but yeah, it wasn’t hard to avoid.

…lots of great stuff about rogue v. lock…

It is funny how much your philosophy and mine match, and even the tastes in classes and even specs. Though in my case I always felt my Rogue should be daggers (in fact, I even have every blue / purple dagger I’ve ever used for a long period of time, starting with the one from Gnomeregan, for nostalgia) and I fell in love with Subtlety and poisons. Ended up going more for Assassination when I came back (emphasis on daggers and poison was very appealing). My Lock has always been Affliction (through leveling up and MC/BWL/AQ40 and into Outland and those instances) – love drain tanking so much. And Warlock CC is a hoot with so many options (Succy kiss, banish, and fear – glad to hear it is improved with that Glyph, that sounds super!). Will suck, however, to level her beyond 73 as my best headpiece is still that PvP piece that spawns the demon wings – looks so cool.

get feint glyph, and basic spam feint whenever there are aoe damage, also knowing what boss do does wonder for your dps.

My assassination rogues are ilvl342 right now, horrible dps at trash, but on boss fights easily 10k+, you can buy offhand weapon with Justice points, as well as do arena for conquest, you can buy epic offhand pvp weapon in 4 arena wins. I sacrifice FoK glyph for sap glyph which is probably one of the best CC since sap never breaks before duration.

Great tip on the feint glyph, I haven’t fully glyphed (and know I need to) – having just gotten 85 and trying to figure out my instance spec / gems / glyphs. Glad to hear that DPS on trash is bad for others – I just feel so useless. But I try my best to make up for it on bosses.

[MarchHare]

Glad to hear that DPS on trash is bad for others – I just feel so useless. But I try my best to make up for it on bosses.

Pro-tip: dual-spec Combat for trash and enjoy ~20,000 dps on multi-mob pulls thanks to Blade Flurry. :)

Assassination is a bit poor for trash because it has a long ramp up time and depends on Rupture ticks (which you won’t get many of on fast-dying trash) for energy regen. It’s great for bosses, but kind of sucks for trash.

[ShivaX]

that’s tank’s fault, tank can actually move the boss during the casting of shadow gale, it’s up to tank to look for shadow gale center, and starting to move boss towards that location before the gale is done casting and boss goes into channeling.

Keep in mind that on heroic its not uncommon for the tank to get punted by the boss and have him drop a gate well behind himself while you’re waiting for him to come to you as you lose the extra damage debuff. In that situation the tank will barely make it to the safe zone himself, much less be able to pull the boss in for melee.

It really depends on where you are when he starts to cast it. Plus its hard to see the gate a lot of the time since you have a huge boss in the way. If the gate is fairly close and you haven’t just been punted across the map its not hard to do though.

[Nellie]

Why /7? Blessing of the Grove? Pick up Owlkin Frenzy instead; it’s actually a DPS boost nowadays, especially in raids (it procs off just about everything).

Yep. I’ve left that as it is for now while I sort the rest of my shit out. Now I’ve sorted the glyphs the DPS is much better but my add-on of choice hasn’t been updated and there is far too much going on to try and do everything as h00tkin but I find it useful on any char trying to maintain a rotation/priority without mods.

Finally managed to persuade the priest to let me heal deadmines and I can sort of see why they’re going to nerf OoC for resto, but that was a guild run with people playing properly. It’ll make life more interesting for sure but im not convinced it’s the end of the world.

[AaronSofaer]

Some interesting new changes next patch. Maybe Mastery will actually be decent now for Balance Druids?

Oh, and Soothe is now instant-cast. No excuse for Druids not to use it to dispel Enrage effects, now!

[idrisz]

I’m extremely happy about the new epic trinket for alchemist!!!

primary stat, YES, mastery, YESSS, 1 free socket, WOOOO…

[AaronSofaer]

Yeah seriously. Int/Haste, red gem socket for 10 more int off the bonus, and Burning Shadowspirit Diamond?

Hell yeah.

[Edit]

“Enchanting: Enchant Off-Hand - Superior Intellect now increases intellect by 40, down from 100.”

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU -