So do you think professional bowlers who win tournaments should also all get the same trophy your casual bowling league did? Assuming you’re a fan of bowling, would you be impressed or find it noteworthy if you walked into someone’s house and they had a trophy signifying a win at a major tournament? Or would you start berating them for having the nerve to display such a stupid thing? It’s just bowling, who cares about their stupid trophy, right? They shouldn’t expect rewards for high levels of performance.
Raids don’t have to be one-dimensional in their purpose, and they aren’t. There are many different aspects of raiding that people can enjoy, e.g. social, organizational, and competitive. There is no ONE TRUE WAY of raiding, and that suits me just fine.
Menzo
1563
If I were a fan of bowling, I probably already know who the pro bowlers are, and if not, I at least know what to look for when I see a trophy.
Maybe you’re not understanding my analogy, so I’ll be more direct.
Everyone who cares about high-end raiding in WoW knows who the high end raiders are and will know when they achieve certain milestones. And the high end guilds will make it very clear if they used the buff or didn’t. Good for them.
Complaining that the rest of the world can now access the content is lame.
Should those who clear ICC without the buff get a special title? Sure, who cares.
Competition in WoW PVE is not limited to the world stage. You can compete with other guilds on your server, or faction, or battlegroup, or whatever. The game doesn’t end when one guild beats it.
Complaining that the rest of the world can now access the content is lame.
I don’t see people complaining about that in this thread. The thrust of the current argument is that clearing the content with and without the buff are separate accomplishments, and you should be able to distinguish between them.
(I am specifically opposed to the buff being available in hard mode because it undermines the intent of hard modes, which is that they were supposed to be the thing keeping “hardcore” raiding going, while casual players have access to the easier modes and the buff.)
Menzo
1566
And what does that have to do with the buff? Nevermind the fact that 5% isn’t going to turn a PUG of mouthbreathers into Kingslayers, all the buff does is create a split hierarchy of guilds that have cleared the content with or without the buff.
At least you have the choice.
I will say that it probably was a mistake that Blizzard didn’t add a Herald of the Titans-like title/achievement for guilds who clear ICC without the buff. Perhaps that would have stopped some of the epeen-focused howling.
Frankly your objections make no sense, Menzo. You keep insisting you don’t care, but you quite obviously do care. It bothers you that people think they should get an additional reward for a higher level of performance.
There’s still competition, though. Anyone who hasn’t killed the Lich King by now will still be competing with everyone else who hasn’t and they’ll all have access to the buff. What does the buff change besides making it easier for the people just now getting into ICC? And if your guild has already “won”, why the hell do you care?
I’m as casual as it gets (I haven’t even set foot in Naxx yet), and I’m glad there’ll be the option of making it a bit easier whenever I get to that point, but I can understand how people would want some recognition for doing it the hard way. That’s the whole point behind a large chunk of the achievements and titles to begin with, so it’s odd that they didn’t integrate the ultimate fight of the game that same way.
I care about my 31xx place in the New York Marathon out of over 43000 people attending!
If I would have your attitude I shouldn’t run any marathon anymore because I will never be able to beat the top guys (simply because I’m too big for the world elite with over 1,80m + age).
I set my own goals and compete in my age bracket.
Same like in WoW.
We compete against the 2nd tier of guilds and they do the same with us.
I’m going to type this in all caps and bold in the undoubtedly vain hope that people will read and comprehend it. I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THE BUFF OR PEOPLE USING IT. I THINK IT’S GREAT THAT IT MAKES ICC MORE ACCESSIBLE FOR CERTAIN PARTS OF THE POPULATION. YAY BUFF, YAY “CASUAL” PLAYERS. I think that completing the content with and without the buff are separate accomplishments, and should be recognized as such. The end.
But what does this buff change? You’re still competing against those same people. You’re just all doing 5% more damge than before. So what?
10% more damage is a hell of a lot.
Would mean 8,8k DPS on Saurfang instead of 8k DPS.
Would mean a faster kill on the hard-enrage bosses like Rotface, Festergut, Purticide, Blood Queen, Sindrigosa.
10% more healing makes Dreamwalker a walk in the park.
Just do a ICC run with Fish feast + flasks and without on the whole raid then you will see how these small buffs add up.
Compared to them 10% is friggin’ huge!
Calm down, Mr. Bold. I was responding to the post above yours about competition.
Menzo
1575
If the only reason you play WoW is to point back and laugh at the next-worse guild, then you are [Boned (25 player)].
If you have zero intrinsic motivation to tackle the challenges in the game, if the only thing that motivates you is being 400th out of 30,000, you must be angry at what Blizzard does all the time.
Sorry.
when do we get to use the “slap in the face” line
It means it’s really funny! No, my pretend elitism is destroyyyyyyed!
It reduces the reward incentive for the hardcore a bit, but really, Blizzard is not in danger of losing those subscribers.
I have no problem with the buff, and I’m glad Blizzard put it there to allow a greater percentage of the playerbase to see the content they created (correcting the terrible mistake they made with Sunwell).
HOWEVER, since they’ve given players the ability to disable the buff, there should be an achievement for completing ICC without it. Also, if you toggle hard mode on, that should automatically disable the buff until you switch back to normal mode.
I hope you don’t care about your Xbox gamer score because I couldn’t give a rat’s ass and I consider everyone who does unfit to live.
Same with Steam “achievements”.
It’s too bad the 5% buff doesn’t compensate for the 50% lag we’ve had for the last 5 weeks.
