[WoW] 3.3/Icecrown/Dropping the Lich King

theborbes · 2010-03-05T19:33:36.000Z

RickH:

As someone who recently spent three months assembling a tank set for my DK, how nice that now ANY plate-wearer with a bit of avoidance can call himself one.

Good thing I’m enjoying Mass Effect 2 so much right now.

How DARE they make this game less like work!

jeffd · 2010-03-05T21:13:58.000Z

Joe M.:

I’m not shedding any tears over paladin threat, I’m just saying the situation is far more equitable – between those two classes – than Vincent seems to think.

I play a DK tank in ICC, alongside a paladin tank. Let me sum up my thoughts on your post:

lolno.

Paladins are a super tanking class to Death Knights by pretty much any measure.

Nathan_Phoenix · 2010-03-06T07:30:41.000Z

Generally when druid tanking against groups, I’m only spamming swipe if I’m being lazy. Typically I’m only using a couple swipes at the start, and then tab targetting and trying to keep lacerate applied to everything for more savage defense procs and better threat. I’m also applying mangle & faerie far as I can, using swipes only to fill GCD’s with nothing better to go in. I really don’t think druid tanks lack for buttons to push besides swipe. If anything is too good about swipe it’s that it hits in a 360’ arc and has no apparent target limit. If they want to tune it to take more skill, making it front arc and 4-5 mobs hit seems plenty reasonable to me.

RickH · 2010-03-06T11:56:53.000Z

theborbes:

How DARE they make this game less like work!

Okay mister snarky, hope you get to group a lot with your noob tanks.

Ranulf · 2010-03-06T12:52:43.000Z

idrisz:

that 5% won’t really help if you raider have issues relating to lack of understanding about the boss encounters.

No, no. They’ll be unstoppable! It will paper over all raid issues! Well, the 30% buff will help a lot with bad dps eventually on timer fights.

This is like the ex guildie who showed up to an alt ICC run the other day as we needed another healer with his priest. Second week in a row with us and he’s having mana issues still. I figured he as he was new to priest healing I’d cut him some slack but reminded him to use mana pots and his shadow pet/hymn and got a frosty attitude in return (I think this is why he left the guild, didnt like some folks attitudes). Yeah he was using those spells but also asking the druid tree for innervate every damn fight but gunship.

So then I looked at his spec after this second run since his gearscore is higher than my priest, he has 4k more mana than me and he has one t10 item. He’s holy spec’d but has none of the regen talents in disc. He took blessed resilence yet he’s a pve’er and he actually put points in the threat reducer talent and skipped Imp. Fort. His mana regen in combat unbuffed is 176 mp5, mine is 450 mp5. He’s won two items out of ICC10 that were upgrades for me. Thats life but his attitude is that I’m an elitist for trying to help him yet he won’t get better. Hell I looked at the combat parse and his spell choices aren’t wrong, he only needs to use circle of healing more but I’m the elitist asshole telling him how to play just for reminding him to use mana regen spells. He’s gemmed all mp5 and Int too. He’s out of mana 3-4 minutes into a fight and burned all of his regen spells and I’m sitting at 60% or better mana… and I’m doing more healing than him and the fucker wins the loot rolls…GRRRRR.

/end elitist rant

idrisz · 2010-03-06T13:19:47.000Z

at least most of people here got further in ICC than I have, I’m in a guild with a couple coworkers, so we raid Icc like 1 night a week for 2-3 hours due to work schedule, and so far we are only like 6/12 in ICC.

lately we been taking new people to do icc, like people with 4000 GS whose putting out like 2-3k dps. I think I got further in ICC in a 25 pug than weeks with guild…

Syzygy · 2010-03-06T17:24:04.000Z

Ranulf:

I’m doing more healing than him and the fucker wins the loot rolls…GRRRRR

That’s your problem. Random is a broken system.

Brettmcd · 2010-03-06T17:45:39.000Z

Syzygy:

That’s your problem. Random is a broken system.

Its far less broken then the other loot systems out there.

Syzygy · 2010-03-06T17:53:56.000Z

Brettmcd:

Its far less broken then the other loot systems out there.

I disagree. Among a tight group of friends that know when ignoring RND is the best thing, it can be great because there’s basically no admin. But the RND has no memory, so it only starts to approach fair if you assume a relatively unchanging roster of raiders over a long period of time. Those are some serious assumptions.

idrisz · 2010-03-06T18:00:46.000Z

Syzygy:

I disagree. Among a tight group of friends that know when ignoring RND is the best thing, it can be great because there’s basically no admin. But the RND has no memory, so it only starts to approach fair if you assume a relatively unchanging roster of raiders over a long period of time. Those are some serious assumptions.

he is talking about an alt run, random is fair in pug/alt

Vincent_GC · 2010-03-06T18:05:12.000Z

There are different loot rules for different reasons. /roll might work for some, loot councel for others, suicide kings, dkp and it’s billions of variants, there is someone for everyone.

personally, for prograssions runs, dkp is where it’s at. /roll is fine for alts.

Brettmcd · 2010-03-06T18:09:13.000Z

If my progression raiding guild ever went to dkp from random I would stop raiding that day, I cant think of a worse loot system. Miss one or two raids because of RL issues and you are behind for the rest of your life.

Athryn · 2010-03-06T18:14:44.000Z

Brettmcd:

If my progression raiding guild ever went to dkp from random I would stop raiding that day, I cant think of a worse loot system. Miss one or two raids because of RL issues and you are behind for the rest of your life.

Not all DKP systems are the same, and there are plenty of ones out there that don’t punish for lack of attendance. When I was running a raiding guild, we used a modified DKP system that was so popular, we had people apping specifically because they liked the fairness of it.

What it really comes down to is what the people in your guild like and are used to.

Syzygy · 2010-03-06T18:15:47.000Z

Depends on how you apply the DKP. I know you’re probably exagerating for effect but lots of raids reset every new instance. I personally would likely never raid with a set group that was set on random. I’ve seen too many people jump up 3 or 4 upgrades over people that have been putting in the same time.

To me, I’d rather get behind for that particular instance (missing one or two weeks would probably put you one upgrade behind) but still be guaranteed to be awarded for my time rather than have the possibility of being screwed by the RNG, new people coming in getting loot before me because they rolled well on RNG when I spent time helping to learn the boss, etc.

Different strokes for different folks for sure.

idrisz · 2010-03-06T18:26:16.000Z

if you really want progression. Dkp doesn’t cut it either. loot distribution base on need and useful to raid.

Rasputin · 2010-03-06T19:21:31.000Z

Brettmcd:

If my progression raiding guild ever went to dkp from random I would stop raiding that day, I cant think of a worse loot system. Miss one or two raids because of RL issues and you are behind for the rest of your life.

Well, at least we know that Brett is the same when it’s politics OR WoW.

Andrew · 2010-03-06T19:52:50.000Z

idrisz:

if you really want progression. Dkp doesn’t cut it either. loot distribution base on need and useful to raid.

Yeah, my guild uses loot council (with pretty heavy use of rolls to break ties) and it seems to work out well. Though I’m the only main spec plate tank so usually get anything I want anyways…

Brettmcd · 2010-03-06T20:14:09.000Z

I guess I look at it this way, if you bring someone on a raid it is because you need them for whatever spot they are in. Why should they waste their time making sure your raid can actually take place and have zero chance to be rewarded for their time. Its an issue of fairness for me to use random.

Athryn · 2010-03-06T20:21:32.000Z

Brettmcd:

I guess I look at it this way, if you bring someone on a raid it is because you need them for whatever spot they are in. Why should they waste their time making sure your raid can actually take place and have zero chance to be rewarded for their time. Its an issue of fairness for me to use random.

But when one person gets multiple pieces over and over because they’re lucky with rolls, people get resentful. I’ve seen it happen. That’s why people invented loot systems in the first place, because there are selfish and resentful people out there.

idrisz · 2010-03-06T20:22:30.000Z

I actually like the 1need unlimited greed system in a raid pug with the whole MS > OS BOE FFA, but 1 need unlimit greed curb rampant rolling for no reason other than having it.