WoW- those cheating gnomes

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?FN=wow-general&T=6171788&P=1

Apparently some folks have brought back the teleport bug/cheat/hack whatever. A guy on my server posted a pick of a lvl 5 NE warrior mining in Silthius, half stuck in the rock himself. Then watched him teleport to darkshore.

I’m a bit surprised that the server is trusting the client with something as important as location without a significant amount of reality enforcement. They know you can’t trust the client.

It took SOE a few tries to get rid of the ruberbanding in their implementation in SWG (I’d expect Blizzard to be much more efficient), but it really is a hard requirement. You just can’t skip that.

(I posted this there, but that’s a pretty pointless place to discuss anything like this :P).

I haven’t been playing long enough to know what the teleport bug is. I’d try to look for it by browsing the official WoW forums, but no fucking way. :)

Remember the stink about the warden anti-hack code that Blizzard was using? Some enterprising cheaters discovered that it has a couple of weaknesses, including that it scans memory only when you first start up and when you exit the game, and that it can only flag things it recognizes. Which means if you only attach your cheat code after the game is playing, and / or you compile it yourself after making meaningless modifications to change the signature, there’s a good chance of fooling the current detection method.

So these people are running cheats that modify your world location coordinates, they’re not being flagged by the warden, and the server isn’t paying attention to how far the game client says it has just moved since the last frame – so they can effectively warp anywhere in the game world anytime they want.

I bet these people are running trial accounts too. It takes about 30 minutes to get to level 5.

The cheaters are like the zombies in Night of the Living Dead. They are legion, and they just keep coming.

Reading through the thread, I found a link to various cooldown hacks.
They actually let the client handle cooldown timers?! Fuck, they need
coders who can do other things than make graphics engines and link to Lualib.

no cooldowns? shit infinite PoM Pyroblasts!!!

(not a MMOG coder)

EQ has survived six years with client-side movement and client-side cooldowns for abilities (Spell casting cooldowns are reported to the player by the client, but checked by the server). Personally I think it’s the correct decision to let <tiny>% get away with movement hacks (and there are sanity checks serverside), rather than expose <large>% to the horrors of rubberbanding.

I am sure this was done for speed, like the vast majority of things that the client is responsible for - designed to minimize net traffic flow. If the client is nothing but a dummy view, the game would lag even worse.

This has caused havoc with thorium prices. I’m 290/300 of axesmithing (with reaper plans in my bank) and not only can I not get any thorium veins, but the prices have skyrocketed to about 6g (min bid) per stack of 20 bars.

Absolutely ridiculous.

The problem is that if you do cooldown timers completely on the server, then people with speedy net connections are given a huge edge in pvp.

Not to mention that the game wouldn’t feel anywhere near as responsive without it.

That being said though, there should at least still be a sanity check server side to make sure the client isn’t sending a new spell cast too soon.

Yeah, that’s about the same price thorium goes for on my server. All the metals are expensive. It is irritating.

Err… what’s the difference between this and doing cooldown timers serverside? If the server has to check every usage for validity, wouldn’t it be just as easier for the server to maintain viability? It costs, what, a dword or so to send out a list of viable options for the client? (Maybe 2… how many total abilities including talents and such could a character possibly have?)

How is that related to this?

[quote=“mouselock”]

Err… what’s the difference between this and doing cooldown timers serverside? If the server has to check every usage for validity, wouldn’t it be just as easier for the server to maintain viability? It costs, what, a dword or so to send out a list of viable options for the client? (Maybe 2… how many total abilities including talents and such could a character possibly have?)[/quote]

It’s not about bandwidth, it’s about ping. Consider these two scenarios, assuming a typical ping of 300ms(which seems to be about average for me in WoW, no matter my connection):

client side:

0ms: Player casts spell, 2000ms cooldown
300ms: server gets spell request, casts spell.
2000ms: cooldown finishes, player casts again
2300ms: server gets new spell, casts.

total objective time between casts: 2000ms

server side:

0ms: player casts spell, 2000ms cooldown.
300ms: server receives cast request, casts spell, initiates cooldown timer
2300ms: cooldown finishes, serverside, server tells client it’s okay to cast again
2600ms: player receives cooldown indicator, casts again
2900ms: server receives cast, initiates.

total objective time between casts: 2600ms.

So you have over half a second difference if you are relying solely on the server. Average that for a 300 damage spell over 10 casts… and one person is doing way more DPS than the other.

However, with a server sanity check over client control, you just have the server reject a new attempt to cast if it comes within cooldown time of last cast.

That being said, I’m pretty sure blizzard does do this, because I’ve occasionally received “you can’t cast yet!” warnings even after my client side cooldown has finished.

The price of thorium has everything to do with the Darkmoon Faire, and nothing to do with level 5 exploiters. If there is a level 5 mining Thorium (movement hack I can believe, but you can’t get skill 226 mining until lv. 35…) it’d serve to drive the price down, not up.

Anyhow.

It’s not hacks, it’s just that the veins are farmed constantly by the gold farmers. If you’re in one spot where a vein spawns long enough you’ll see the same people ride by over and over. That’s all they do – ride their mounts and look for veins, chests that spawn, etc. In some cases I think the same characters are played in shifts by different people.

Oh, for sure. I’ve got a good friend in real life who told me, upon dropping his 300 mining, “I realized I wasn’t Chinese, so I dropped it.” Somoene earlier in the thread implied that the thorium was being farmed by level 5s, though, and that’s why thorium was so expensive. I was just pointing out that a) Even with a movement hack it’s impossible, and b) more thorium = lower prices, not higher prices.

Guild Wars has excellent serverside enforcement while still allowing the client to handle a lot of the work. Maybe those Blizzard guys could take some tips from those ex-Blizzard guys :roll:

A couple months ago, a guy in my guild decided he wanted the epic necklace from Darkmoon. For the turn-ins he figured he could buy thorium to make widgets from the farmers, and boy was he right. Once he got one to understand he wanted a LOT of thorium, he got whispers from a bunch of other farmers wanting to unload the stuff. I think he got Thorium Ore for about 1.5g a stack of 10 since he was buying in bulk. It seems the farmers are swimming in Thorium Ore from their search for Arcane Crystals. I converted 500 ore into bars for him, so I actually saw a lot of this thorium.

The best part of the story is that a month later, he had joined one of the big raid guilds, got a better necklace, and disenchanted the Darkmoon one.