XCOM: Enemy Unknown

scharmers · 2012-10-12T15:33:55.000Z

rezaf:

Pfft, there hardly IS a RNG.
They used the immediately stupid approach of going with a predetermined “seed” that never changes and is even stored in the savegame. And it not only “steers”, it is basically in total control.
I tested one particular situation at the beginning of a turn.
Whatever their to-hit percentage, ALL six soldiers would miss their shot.
One had 95% to hit.

rezaf

I hate to try to deter your hyperbolic hatred over this game, but yeah, the predetermined/saved RNG seed is kind of a known issue, as in it’s a design feature to prevent save scumming.

But carry on…

Universal_Leader · 2012-10-12T15:36:55.000Z

rezaf:

Neither of these things is “terrain”. Destructible terrain means if you blow up a huge bomb, there’s a crater. If you shoot your rocket into a earthen hill, part of it collapses. None of these things can happen. The actual terrain is adamant, you can merely “destroy cover”.

So the new game is just like the original X-Com in that respect. I’m fine with that.

robc04 · 2012-10-12T15:43:05.000Z

rezaf:

Pfft, there hardly IS a RNG.
They used the immediately stupid approach of going with a predetermined “seed” that never changes and is even stored in the savegame. And it not only “steers”, it is basically in total control.
I tested one particular situation at the beginning of a turn.
Whatever their to-hit percentage, ALL six soldiers would miss their shot.
One had 95% to hit.

rezaf

Not sure what the problem is with that. While the seed doesn’t change, each random number is still random. It just prevents cheating. I could see someone make the argument that in a single player game if a player wants to save scumm then they should be allowed to.

rezaf · 2012-10-12T15:43:36.000Z

scharmers:

I hate to try to deter your hyperbolic hatred over this game, but yeah, the predetermined/saved RNG seed is kind of a known issue, as in it’s a design feature to prevent save scumming.

But carry on…

Heh, somebody must counter your unconditional love declarations to it.

Anyway, I’m aware that this “feature” is meant to prevent save scumming.
But this really is only the designer saying: Screw you, if I say you’re screwed, you’re screwed FOR GOOD. Go ahead and replay the entire level. Muahahaha.
I haven’t actually done it much so far in XCOM, but if I want to save scumm, why not just let me? If I want to play Ironman, I can pick that option.
To me, this is just a spit in the face and a raising of the middle finger.

Universal Leader:

So the new game is just like the original
X-Com in that respect. I’m fine with that.

You ARE aware the terrain in X-Com WAS destructible, right?
The implementation was far from perfect and only improved in Apocalypse, but XCOM took a big step back from X-Com in that department.

robc04:

I could see someone make the argument that in a single player game if a player wants to save scumm then they should be allowed to.

Yep, I just did that.

rezaf

Universal_Leader · 2012-10-12T15:45:21.000Z

Yeah, I’ve played the original. Lots. You could burrow a small way into a hill in the original X-Com, but you couldn’t create craters in the ground from explosions.

Joe_M · 2012-10-12T15:45:29.000Z

Yes, not allowing you to circumvent the challenge in the game is spitting in your face. I’m glad we’ve cleared that up. I would like you to try to work “slap to the face” into your next post, if possible.

rezaf · 2012-10-12T15:54:56.000Z

Joe M.:

Yes, not allowing you to circumvent the challenge in the game is spitting in your face. I’m glad we’ve cleared that up. I would like you to try to work “slap to the face” into your next post, if possible.

I once read a nice article about this from one of the Civ developers.
He said they initially had this implemented in Civ2 (or 3? I think it was 2).
And people complained about it in doves. One dude appearently took the time to make a thousand tests with one particular combat and wrote them: I repeated this exact combat a THOUSAND times, and lost each time. Your RNG clearly is broken.
Eventually, they just dropped the saved seed in a patch - why not just let people play the game the way they want to play it?

I can see this as an option you can turn off somehow (maybe just before starting the game, like Iron man), but otherwise, yeah, it’s just a slap to the face (Achievement unlocked!).

rezaf

Joe_M · 2012-10-12T16:11:13.000Z

Evidently they don’t wish to allow you to cheat yourself or the game. I mean, if I weren’t a confirmed masochist, I could see how it’d be very easy to ruin the experience by reloading certain encounters until the RNG broke in my favor. To me, this is abusive gameplay and preventing it is a good thing for the integrity of the game… even if it provides rezaf more material to troll us with.

That aside, I think I’ve finally got a grasp on how the early game plays on classic. It’s been rough. I’ve restarted a half dozen or so times, learning a little bit more each playthrough (I abort them after a handful of missions so that I can try out new things). Now I’m thinking that I may want to have a rookie tag along on these early missions, to keep the experience spread out a bit so I don’t end up with a full rookie squad if (when) a mission goes sour on me. Is this generally a good idea? Or are you guys leveling up a “primary” squad first?

Universal_Leader · 2012-10-12T16:13:50.000Z

I always have one rookie in the squad. You need a deep bench because your primary soldiers will often be wounded and out of commission.

Joel · 2012-10-12T16:45:34.000Z

I’m now getting an error (twice over) that causes the game to hang mid-mission. Only killing the .exe and restarting fixes it. I’d almost beat a big mission this last time, too. Definitely a big bug. (And only post-patch.)

Woolen_Horde · 2012-10-12T16:58:04.000Z

PC version modded to support 12 squaddies.

JM1 · 2012-10-12T17:02:59.000Z

Goodbye, first game on normal Ironman. I was going so well with my first proper assault and then I got a bit cocky and a couple of chained reaction moves from Crysalids turned into a failure cascade.

Must say I’m finding the excessive free moves to be cheap as hell (particularly where Crysalids are concerned).

Quaro · 2012-10-12T17:08:15.000Z

rezaf:

Anyway, I’m aware that this “feature” is meant to prevent save scumming.
But this really is only the designer saying: Screw you, if I say you’re screwed, you’re screwed FOR GOOD. Go ahead and replay the entire level. Muahahaha.
I haven’t actually done it much so far in XCOM, but if I want to save scumm, why not just let me? If I want to play Ironman, I can pick that option.
To me, this is just a spit in the face and a raising of the middle finger.

FYI, there are full blown cheats in the game if you just want to avoid replaying a lost battle and get to the next one. They disable achievements. They could do the same with scumm prevention, let you turn it off, but it disables achievements.

Example cheat:
"

try renaming a squad member to Sid Meier

Savillo · 2012-10-12T17:49:20.000Z

garin:

Thanks so much for pointing this out! I forced a fail state and was able to complete it the second time. Campaign salvaged.

You’re welcome! Glad you could finish your campaign.

Grifman · 2012-10-12T18:07:16.000Z

Universal Leader:

Huh. I had a mission take place in a genuine honky-tonk bar, with country music and everything, right in the middle of Alexandria, Egypt. Who knew that was there?

Ah, the benefits of the Arab Spring. Who knew a game could be so timely? :)

TimJames · 2012-10-12T18:09:13.000Z

Joe M.:

Evidently they don’t wish to allow you to cheat yourself or the game.

They also don’t want you to quickload every time something goes wrong during the aliens’ turn. I’ve let a few soldiers die because the goddamn animations and interface are so slow that I lost interest by the time I finally got control back.

Giaddon · 2012-10-12T18:20:25.000Z

Man, assaults with the “automatic reaction fire at all units within 4 squares” ability just tear up terror missions. Open a door, Chyrsalids attack, pop pop pop, all dead. So awesome.

Woolen_Horde · 2012-10-12T18:31:48.000Z

Universal Leader:

Huh. I had a mission take place in a genuine honky-tonk bar, with country music and everything, right in the middle of Alexandria, Egypt. Who knew that was there?

Stranger things have happened

Alan_Dunkin · 2012-10-12T18:32:07.000Z

Ok yeah I managed to confirm the one bug I ran into:

Squaddie runs out of ammo
Attempt to fire with the squaddie
You get message saying you need to reload
Hit tab or do something else to otherwise shift to another squaddie (possibly other things)
Screwed

— Alan

Giaddon · 2012-10-12T19:04:11.000Z

I do think that Firaxis should have introduced some way to recoup after a wipe. Losing veteran soldiers will outright end your game. Some (expensive) way to get slightly better soldiers would be really nice.