XCOM: Enemy Unknown

ShivaX · 2012-10-18T16:45:35.000Z

CLWheeljack:

IIRC, skeleton armor has +10 defense, but has 1 less HP than Carapace. Given that 10 defense is a -10% to-hit, I’d say it’s a significant upgrade.

Pretty sure it also increases your move distance.

Giaddon · 2012-10-18T16:51:29.000Z

Yep, +move +grapple. Not sure about the defense boost, though.

Murbella · 2012-10-18T17:18:06.000Z

The grapple is useless.

I used it once when a bugged ufo mission had enemies on an otherwise inaccessible roof. Admittedly I wouldn’t have been able to finish the level without it, but it was a one time only bug.

Quaro · 2012-10-18T17:19:58.000Z

Getting to high ground with a squad sight sniper is definitely not useless.

Mazuo · 2012-10-18T17:20:38.000Z

Not at all. Great for the elevation bonuses and overwatch pistol instead of using your whole turn dashing. There’s lots of places that can’t easily be climbed as well.

Murbella · 2012-10-18T17:44:10.000Z

Quaro:

Getting to high ground with a squad sight sniper is definitely not useless.

there are almost no places to use it though. Levels in xcom are not designed with multiple levels generally, likely because the engine can’t handle it.

Grifman · 2012-10-18T17:55:23.000Z

Murbella:

there are almost no places to use it though.

That’s obviously not true given all the praises of squad sight snipers being sung on the 2K Xcom forums.

Blips · 2012-10-18T17:56:49.000Z

Grapple is awesome; high ground is awesome; people are crazy.

Mazuo · 2012-10-18T18:00:15.000Z

Suppression is also wonderful, at least on heavies, since I’ve heard a few people doubting it.

robc04 · 2012-10-18T19:45:00.000Z

Grifman:

That’s obviously not true given all the praises of squad sight snipers being sung on the 2K Xcom forums.

My squad sight sniper was my single best guy. I don’t know how many times he would save the groups ass. Once he got double tap I could could on almost 2 kills per turn. His hit % was frequently at 95%-100%.

Murbella · 2012-10-18T19:59:04.000Z

Grifman:

That’s obviously not true given all the praises of squad sight snipers being sung on the 2K Xcom forums.

I am one of the people here saying that squad sight is absolutely required for all snipers. Grapple is just not useful. I’ve used it a grand total of once.

The disconnect is that you don’t need to grapple to some tower to use squad sight effectively. Most maps don’t have super high towers. At best you’d be on the side of some building but even those maps are limited and most of the time if you grapple to the side of some large warehouse, it will block your view of other places (ie your field of fire is better on the ground).

There is also the problem of defense since it is hard to find cover on most building tops and as we all know, enemies can easier shoot through the roof as if it wasn’t there so that doesn’t do anything to protect your sniper.

Mazuo:

Suppression is also wonderful, at least on heavies, since I’ve heard a few people doubting it.

What is suppression wonderful on?

It seems completely useless on any ranged enemy because of the cover system (you use suppression on an enemy, he calmly steps out of cover, slowly takes aim, shoots you in the face and you die without firing a shot) and on melee enemies, the aim penalty is useless.

I always try to make a suppression heavy with the theory of specializing in anti melee, but whenever i use him, i never meet any melee enemies for some reason.

Also, does it trigger reaction fire from even soldier who can see the target moving or just the person using suppression? if it is just the person, it seems even more useless.

garin · 2012-10-18T20:45:30.000Z

Suppression is not for use against melee enemies, that doesn’t make any sense. Just use normal overwatch for that.

Suppression always hits (and does 2-3 points of damage if you have Mayhem). If you have a low chance to hit with a regular attack, it’s often a better idea to reduce the enemy’s chance of doing damage using suppression. A -30 Aim penalty is pretty devastating, especially if your guys are in high cover.

It’s also useful when you’re trying to capture a lot of aliens.

Giaddon · 2012-10-18T21:02:14.000Z

Damn, classic is hard. DAMN.

Murbella · 2012-10-18T21:07:45.000Z

garin:

Suppression is not for use against melee enemies, that doesn’t make any sense. Just use normal overwatch for that.

Suppression always hits (and does 2-3 points of damage if you have Mayhem). If you have a low chance to hit with a regular attack, it’s often a better idea to reduce the enemy’s chance of doing damage using suppression. A -30 Aim penalty is pretty devastating, especially if your guys are in high cover.

It’s also useful when you’re trying to capture a lot of aliens.

Yes, that is my point, it doesn’t make any sense.

I never noticed the aim penalty at all on classic. They still hit me either way if i’m anywhere remotely near them.

Don’t you get an accuracy penalty on overwatch? If you already have a poor chance to hit, i don’t think suppression would really help too greatly. Not to mention the reaction fire won’t go off as the ranged enemy will do the cover “move out of cover and shoot” instead of the real move and shoot. This is the real flaw with suppression. Ranged enemies don’t have to move with the cover system so the only way to trap a ranged enemy in overwatch generally is to overwatch while the enemy is out of range/los, something you can’t do with suppression since it is an attack.

I did not have mayhem on my suppression heavy though.

Mr.GRIM · 2012-10-18T21:22:46.000Z

Grapple is not just for snipers. One of my most effective soldiers was a high mobility support class using grapple and the scope upgrade.
Her accuracy was second only to the sniper’s, and her large movement range made getting up and into firing position or overwatch relatively easy.

It can be used on even small elevations, and I was able to use it to extend the movement range of my medic on un-even terrain.

Mazuo · 2012-10-18T21:36:32.000Z

Murbella:

What is suppression wonderful on?

It seems completely useless on any ranged enemy because of the cover system (you use suppression on an enemy, he calmly steps out of cover, slowly takes aim, shoots you in the face and you die without firing a shot)

Not at all. I can’t count the number of times I’ve kept ranged enemies locked in spots they don’t want to be in, they shoot instead and miss terribly because of the aim penalty. Combined with holo-targeting, the rest of my troops vaporize him. Add on mayhem and one or more enemies take 1-3 dmg just for being locked down and not able to shoot back worth a damn.

I don’t use it on melee troops much, but again holo-targeting can make this useful along with if they do charge in, they’re closer and your shot is more likely to hit. The overwatch penalty may make this a wash. As opposed to a rocket that just ruins alien artifact recovery, frequently can’t be shot because I need to move or the angle is wrong or will hurt my own men. Yes, the regular rocket with HEAT ammo is a beautiful thing, but the shredder rocket is not so fantastic that I’m not completely willing to pass over it for something I can use over and over again to my advantage.

Quaro · 2012-10-18T21:58:16.000Z

Suppression can do guaranteed 3 AOE damage (six to mechanical) with the upgrades. Can’t be reflected. Suppression + flush might be interesting but I haven’t tried flush yet.

Any kind of guaranteed damage is useful on ironman where even rockets can feel risky.

I do usually prefer simply firing twice though – but I didn’t realize that’s what bullet storm MEANT until I read it later.

mjgreeny75 · 2012-10-18T22:26:24.000Z

Hunty:

No need for actual foreign languages in the English version I don’t think. I’d be perfectly happy with some cheesy accents like EngineerGuy or ScientistLady have. Y’know, action movie realism.

Agreed: just the accents would do fine. I can grasp the idea of elitesoldiers all mastering English somewhat, just not the american accent that comes with it. I’m sure it will be modded or added with DLC, hopefully with more armor-customizing options aswell, which are not abundant at the moment. I guess sómeone will use the ‘all-pink’ armortype, but I’d prefer somewhat more realistic options…

SlyFrog:

I’d bet that most people having problems in the tactical part of the game on Normal are having them because they are moving too often/too far.

You don’t have to move. You don’t have to make people dash. Slow movement, cover to cover, always leaving opportunity for overwatch, never discovering the next group of aliens until you’ve killed the first group, is the way to victory.

I know this, but in the case with the chryssalids there simply wasn’t anything I could do with ordinairy rifles… And sometimes you just get unlucky: yesterday I got ambushed bij an insectoid that I hadn’t spotted yet. Probably a bug: the ‘I see you!!!’-movie didn’t show, and when I moved my soldier forward (just a small bit, no dashing) he got caught by overwatch and was then pounded by the insectoids mate (that I hadn’t spotted either) the next turn. Oh well…

Quaro · 2012-10-19T00:07:59.000Z

Squad sight snipers are definitely a bit over powered. That’s how all the people winning in impossible ironman are doing it on twitch.tv 2 snipers = 4 kills every turn from across the map. 2 sectopods? boom boom dead before they even scuttled with the battle probe.

Alan_Au · 2012-10-19T01:24:33.000Z

I have a bit of a weird question; how long does a wrecked UFO stay around after I shoot it down, say if I’m waiting for a research project or base facility to finish before I launch the ground assault? Anybody know?