XCOM: Enemy Unknown

[Inverarity]

The macro level needs to be a lot less predictable…

The micro layer needs to be a lot less random. The game does not give you the tools to deal with most of the death trap situations the system allows for, and it punishes you hard and in a rapidly feedback-creating manner for having the misfortune of getting screwed by the RNG.

I agree about the strategic layer (macro), but not about the randomness of the tactical layer (micro) . I think it became anything but random once the difficulty was bumped to Classic. Wiglaf and Savillo brought it up a few pages back and it’s worth repeating:

And once you learn how punishing the bizarre “Alien activation” mechanic can be on the tactical level, you start playing so cautiously there that all your tactical matches end up being basically the same thing. The game actually punishes the player for inventive maneuvering, or doing anything other than inching up one unit at a time. Don’t scout, or we’ll throw 6 more aliens at you at once and kill your entire playthrough!

I enjoyed the game quite a bit, got my money’s worth, will buy future Solomon-led titles, etc., etc., but THIS to me was the most fatal of fatal flaws in the game (the strategy layer having only one strategy was second most).

The tactical game dishes out too much punishment for uncovering a new group of aliens. So much so that advanced tactics go out the window. Even on Normal this is a problem, but on Classic, it bogs down to something slow and tedious…and endlessly repeatable. Thankfully, it took me 30+ hours to figure this out, and then another 10+ to get annoyed by it, so like I said, I got my money’s worth. But the flaw is there nonetheless, and it’s a big one.

[Murbella]

Mel Brooks: “Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you fall into an open sewer and die.”

The equivalent rule for game development is: When a player rolls well and kills a monster against the odds, it’s clearly because of the player’s innate awesomenes. When a monster rolls well and kills a player, it’s clearly because the game is a cheating broken piece of crap.

I completely agree with this but i do think the AI seems to get pretty big accuracy bonuses on classic and above.

[Mark_Asher]

I hope Firaxis sees the wisdom of releasing an editor. An editor lets the mod community create new content that keeps us players interested and maybe entices some new players to buy and jump in, and then Firaxis can work on a new XCOM with new aliens, weapons, maps, etc., and get all of us to buy that too.

[Savillo]

But it just looked to me like aliens behind cover across the map were given huge accuracy bonuses. AND FUCK THAT. It pissed me off. I uninstalled the game.

This is true in the sense that aliens do have better to-hit odds against you. In particular, Thin Men come particularly early, and they carry the light plasma rifle, which provides a +10 aim bonus. If you’re playing classic, all aliens already have +10 aim and critical bonuses. Over on the XCOM wiki, you can see the base stats for Thin Men: http://xcom.wikia.com/wiki/Thin_Man#Statistics

So with the light plasma rifle, Thin Men have an aim stat of 85 on classic. If your soldier is in half cover, the aliens have a 65% chance-to-hit, which is the same chance-to-hit your soldiers have against aliens in the open (rookie soldiers have a base aim stat of 65). Even if your soldiers are in full cover, Thin Men are going to hit them about half the time (45%).

I’m also not sure if the wiki’s stat table is already accounting for the difficulty bonuses or if those are the base values for each alien at each difficulty before bonuses are applied. I’ve assumed the former, but if the latter, then you’re looking at a 95% to-hit chance for Thin Men before any cover bonuses are applied.

[arrendek]

This is true in the sense that aliens do have better to-hit odds against you. In particular, Thin Men come particularly early, and they carry the light plasma rifle, which provides a +10 aim bonus. If you’re playing classic, all aliens already have +10 aim and critical bonuses. Over on the XCOM wiki, you can see the base stats for Thin Men: http://xcom.wikia.com/wiki/Thin_Man#Statistics

So with the light plasma rifle, Thin Men have an aim stat of 85 on classic. If your soldier is in half cover, the aliens have a 65% chance-to-hit, which is the same chance-to-hit your soldiers have against aliens in the open (rookie soldiers have a base aim stat of 65). Even if your soldiers are in full cover, Thin Men are going to hit them about half the time (45%).

I’m also not sure if the wiki’s stat table is already accounting for the difficulty bonuses or if those are the base values for each alien at each difficulty before bonuses are applied. I’ve assumed the former, but if the latter, then you’re looking at a 95% to-hit chance for Thin Men before any cover bonuses are applied.

Thanks for the info. That’s about how it felt to be downrange of those guys. It’s really easy to get in a shitstorm in the game and not be able to come out of it intact, and then you lose your good troops and some bonus when you get home, which snowballs on the strategic level there. To some extent, I like that that can happen. But in the original XCOM I felt I could tactically move around a map in such a way as to contain the aliens in one area and then systematically move up and take them out. In this game I don’t feel like I can do that, since whenever an alien pops instead of chewing on some doofus’s neck he instead takes cover and then has accuracy bonuses against me. And the actual moment I uninstalled was about 10 seconds after I read that when you get criticially wounded soldiers they suffer a permanent loss of willpower. The game just can’t stop taking a dump on you which makes me extra mad when I can’t control the battles and they feel so random.

[TimJames]

Mel Brooks: “Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you fall into an open sewer and die.”

The equivalent rule for game development is: When a player rolls well and kills a monster against the odds, it’s clearly because of the player’s innate awesomenes. When a monster rolls well and kills a player, it’s clearly because the game is a cheating broken piece of crap.

I scoff at the good and the bad extremes. Which is actually worse than your hypothetical person whose ignorance is bliss. At least he gets to enjoy the good rolls!

Now, if I were to set up a great suppress-and-flank maneuver, then I feel pretty awesome even though deep down inside I know I’m beating up a child in the AI. We talked about the relative merits of the two approaches months ago.

[Savillo]

No problem, arrendek. I can definitely see how this situation could be frustrating, and I sympathize. I don’t agree with Firaxis’ decision to boost stats as difficulty tuners … that’s backward thinking to me. The “shackled” and “unshackled” A.I. states is smart, though. They should have stuck with that, and I wish they could have had that type of A.I. tuning for the Geoscape layer, too.

We want to feel like the A.I. outsmarted us when we lose, not like the A.I. can simply endure more punishment and/or gets better odds.

[robc04]

…

We want to feel like the A.I. outsmarted us when we lose, not like the A.I. can simply endure more punishment and/or gets better odds.

Or at least that our success isn’t so random.

[arrendek]

No problem, arrendek. I can definitely see how this situation could be frustrating, and I sympathize. I don’t agree with Firaxis’ decision to boost stats as difficulty tuners … that’s backward thinking to me. The “shackled” and “unshackled” A.I. states is smart, though. They should have stuck with that, and I wish they could have had that type of A.I. tuning for the Geoscape layer, too.

We want to feel like the A.I. outsmarted us when we lose, not like the A.I. can simply endure more punishment and/or gets better odds.

Amen, brother.

[Janster]

Wrong, at least for me. When the AI wins, I want to feel that I didn’t play good enough.

[Savillo]

Is that not just the opposite side of the same coin?

[arrendek]

Is that not just the opposite side of the same coin?

Personally, I read his comment as “You’re wrong, I agree with you.”

[Arbit]

The old XCOM levels out the randomness by having more squaddies and letting them shoot multiple times. So, if you’ve moved 80% of your squaddies and an alien just has to die, you probably have about two guys that can shoot. If one misses an 85% chance, he can probably shoot again or another guy can take a crack at it. The chance of getting multiple misses on an 85% to hit are really really low. If 80% of your squad have moved in the new XCOM, that’s going to leave you with one soldier, who may only get one shot. Personally, the way I deal with this is to not let such do-or-die situations occur in the first place. Don’t risk activating new enemies if half your squad has already moved, and put everyone on overwatch at the end of the turn. There are a few auto-damage items/abilities you can use like grenades, rockets, and psi-powers (well, mindfray is often guaranteed and at least will impede their aim) that you can use if you do end up in a do-or-die sort of situation.

[Stepsongrapes]

Personally, the way I deal with this is to not let such do-or-die situations occur in the first place.

As others have mentioned, this essentially makes Classic battles consistently the slow creep approach. The only way to avoid the situation is inch up. You really can’t afford to leave a visible alien alive at the end of your turn, too often. They hit too hard and with too much frequency to get away with it often.

How do you avoid leaving live aliens, end of turn? Creep. Creep. Creep.

As many, many others have stated: I enjoyed my playthrough of XCOM. I can’t see myself coming back.

[Alan_Au]

I found that missions took about 3 times as long to play on Classic difficulty, because I would creep along and overwatch every turn. Then, when enemies were spotted, I would set up a defensive line outside of visual range and try to lure aliens into my overwatch.

[Woolen_Horde]

I found that missions took about 3 times as long to play on Classic difficulty, because I would creep along and overwatch every turn. Then, when enemies were spotted, I would set up a defensive line outside of visual range and try to lure aliens into my overwatch.

Pretty much. Once you get squad-sighted snipers going, it’s just creeping forward to spot for them.

Any sequel basically needs a complete overhaul on the strategic side to make it much more dynamic and open. And the tactical side desperately needs an overhaul of alien AI/tactics to allow for more–not less–maneuvering. Get rid of those groups and give the aliens an actual mission, rather than waiting around to be triggered.

[jpinard]

Pretty much. Once you get squad-sighted snipers going, it’s just creeping forward to spot for them.

Any sequel basically needs a complete overhaul on the strategic side to make it much more dynamic and open. And the tactical side desperately needs an overhaul of alien AI/tactics to allow for more–not less–maneuvering. Get rid of those groups and give the aliens an actual mission, rather than waiting around to be triggered.

Yes I love this idea.

[JoshV]

And the actual moment I uninstalled was about 10 seconds after I read that when you get criticially wounded soldiers they suffer a permanent loss of willpower.

I found the loss of willpower to be unnoticeable. The amount of Psi enabled aliens in the game is pretty miniscule, and number of those that manage to get an action off before they do anything notable is even less.

[Dave_Markell]

Pretty much. Once you get squad-sighted snipers going, it’s just creeping forward to spot for them.

Any sequel basically needs a complete overhaul on the strategic side to make it much more dynamic and open. And the tactical side desperately needs an overhaul of alien AI/tactics to allow for more–not less–maneuvering. Get rid of those groups and give the aliens an actual mission, rather than waiting around to be triggered.

Good suggestions with which I’m in 100% agreement.

[McCrank]

Amen, brother.

Matt,

I told you the game was good :)

-Chris