Trump’s advantage is that his message is quite simple though: “It’s fun to hate things”.
Good example of their issue. Their official platform doesn’t mention any of those things as major positions. https://www.democrats.senate.gov/abetterdeal
I couldn’t find anything that Gordon mentioned in my copy of The Hobbit, either.
What The Hobbit– and your link – have in common is that neither is the Democratic Party Platform.
My google skills may not be the greatest, but they were sharp enough to find this as the first link when I typed “Democratic Party Platform” into a search engine. ;)
https://www.democrats.org/party-platform
(Hint: all of the things Gordon mentions are in the party platform.)
EDIT: Due to your edit. ;)
A little harsh, I think. I’m sure @triggercut is technically correct, but the Better Deal that @CharlesC linked was widely reported a few months ago as the party’s platform. Even Google thinks so - type “democrats better deal” into Google search and it suggests “platform” as the next word. Which again, is largely an example of the messaging problem that Democrats have. If Better Deal isn’t the platform, they need to get out there and correct the misconception. Which of course they can’t do, because there isn’t agreement within the party on what messaging to use, and no strong leader to set and enforce direction.
BTW, breathe easier. Oprah isn’t running.
So that’s good news at least!
Both parties set a platform in a conference committee and vote on it as rank and file for it to be adopted. The only way to get everyone together to put things on the platform and then vote on them is at the national convention every four years.
And so both parties do that, every four years, during the big televised national convention. And that platform is their goalpost guiding document for the next four years.
Right yes, sorry I shouldn’t have said ‘platform’ which has a very specific definition. And I’m not disagreeing with Gordon that those are all things democrats stand for. What I was trying to point out, was that the top things that came to his mind are not the top things the democrats are focusing on with the ‘Better Deal’ marketing/messaging. They attempted to focus their message months ago and so far it seems to have failed.
Even this little conversation about platform points up the underlying issue.
Yep, that’s the technically correct definition of how the process works. And no one outside the political sausage factory cares.
The general public sees Chuck Schumer, Nancy Pelosi, et al going out to middle-of-nowhere and making this big “Better Deal” announcement and think “that’s the Democratic Party right there”. Then it’s roundly ridiculed for being lukewarm and directionless, and they think “yep, all those politicians are terrible” and either don’t vote or buy into insane Trump-ian promises.
Here’s why this is such a goofy line of discussion.
Both parties heavily message their own party and the other constantly. Republicans are happy to tell you that it’s the Democrats who prevent them from being able to drill baby drill. The Democrats are happy to say that they’re protecting offshore drilling and the ANWAR. Republicans are happy to tell you that they support corporate profits that will fire up a robust economy and lead to more, better employment, and that raising the minimum wage is the Devil’s – and Democrats’ work. Democrats are happy to paint Republicans as corporation supporters, and themselves as supporters of minimum wage increases.
The parties each define one another constantly, fairly or unfairly.
So what’s the use-case scenario where someone has NO IDEA what each party might stand for, and thinks “I’ll google (because although I am oblivious to how each party thinks about these issues, I am able to turn my computer on and use google without setting my home on fire) party platform (because I know that term very well), because that’s the best way to find out about issues and answers.”
I mean, I’m just not seeing this. And if this is the the “messaging problem”, then it is a problem both parties have.
I see your point. I guess it’s just a perception thing. I feel like I’m going to hear a pretty consistent message from Republicans - lower taxes, smaller government, hard line on illegal immigration, etc. (Most of which I disagree with, and often is completely at odds with their actual actions, but we’re talking message here.) But with Democrats, I’m going to hear very different things depending on who is talking. And the example of “Better Deal” vs what’s in the party platform is a fine example of that lack of consistent messaging.
It does help that one of the 4 major broadcast networks and one of the 3 major cable news networks is the house organ of the Republican party–the network, party, and conservative activists coordinate their message with daily memos. The Democrats don’t have the same relationship with any media organization.
Bingo. The GOP gets to set the framing because of Fox, so even the Dems have their platform covered through that framing.
Fox means the GOP gets to define what their platform messaging is, and that the GOP gets to define what the DNC platform messaging is.
And even on NPR, it seems the guests they interview are usually GOP. And then they won’t have a counterpoint from Dems. It’s really frustrating to hear the interviewers softball questions and let the GOP folks spew their garbage, and not even to have the Dems say anything to counter it. I’ve started to wonder if they are doing it specifically to anger their listeners, cause anger is motivating and keeps people listening.
This is perhaps my biggest complaint about many news organizations which I generally respect. I think perhaps they view themselves as the counterpoint. To an extent, this makes some sense as their sense of integrity is about presenting the facts as they see them, and we all know facts are often diametrically opposed with what comes out of political talking heads.
However, when I see this happen, I can’t help but think of various courtroom dramas where a lawyer says something ridiculous, an objection is made and they withdraw the comment. The words still hit the ears of the audience/jury, even if the interviewer responds rationally and takes them down point by point. Sometimes equal force/dogma is the only thing which can realistically cancel it out, but one set of extreme viewpoints is more than enough to host on a show and a second just turns it into a shouting match.
To tweak a phrase from Wargames; the only way to win is not to play… except news shows are businesses, and they need viewers so they need to come up with something different.
The NPR thing is doubly tricky, since much of their funding is public. And which side of the aisle is more likely to come screeching ‘bias’ and attempting to cut funding the second their viewpoint is challenged?
Ding ding ding.
Generally liberals are going to be more educated and aware, and less likely to start throwing shit at the walls when their position is challenged.
Fucking republican snowflakes, is the takeaway I guess.
At the risk of needing flame-retardant clothes here, let me present the view from the other side.
Republican messaging is just as messy and complicated. Sure, they’ve got FOX News on their side…but they’ve also got 60-70% of the population who reject FOX News out of hand. And so when they try to message their own spin of the income tax legislation or try to message their own side of things on pretty much any issue, it kind of runs into this very low ceiling that it just cannot break through.
And to take that a step further, now imagine that you’re a lifelong Republican or conservative who doesn’t give a hoot about the Religious Right, and you legit are for less government, and invisible market hands and are willing to argue coherently that cutting taxes improves an economy and generates more revenue as a result than direct taxation. Where the hell is your message getting out? Anywhere? And is anyone listening?
I would suggest moving abroad, because it seems like that ship has already sailed in the US, lol.
If you are a GOP politician, you can get that info out wherever you want - Fox, NPR, CNN, they’ll all let you talk. I heard plenty of GOP interviewees on NPR during the tax bill crisis claiming what you have said. Now, I paid them no mind, but they got to talk and I heard it.
I think the issue is more that the GOP doesn’t actually stand for small government or the free market at the moment, so there’s nobody actually trying to say that. The GOP doesn’t want free trade deals, they want protectionism, but only for their chosen companies, usually their donors. The GOP spends silly amounts of money just like the dems, but they do it while cutting taxes and thus driving up the deficit. Then the dem president has to bail the country out just in time for the economy to recover enough for the next GOP president to pillage it again.
Perhaps a third and fourth party are needed that actually stand for the things the words conservative and liberal used to mean. At the moment, we have the centrists and the evangelical fascists.
There are certainly some conservatives saying that and standing firm on conservative principles. Whether or not they consider themselves Republicans is somewhat of an open question. Some of them do, some of them don’t. The Republican Foreign Policy establishment still tends to be strongly anti-Trump. A large number of conservative pundits/intellectuals are also still supporting conservative principles and anti-Trumpism.
Take the WashPost’s Jennifer Rubin for example. In 2012 her column was basically a mouthpiece for the Romney Campaign, so she’s definitely proved her Republican “loyalty” extensively in the past. Here are some editorials she’s written just in the last few days:
- Americans’ wallets will take a hit with Trump’s dumb trade policy
- What happens when a party becomes unmoored from truth and the American creed
- Republicans are determined to go down with the ship
- Most Americans say “Yep Trump is Racist”
She was adamant that the Tax Plan was bad policy and an unprincipled giveaway for the rich and generally seems of the idea that the Republican Party can’t be saved anymore and should be burned to the ground.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/?utm_term=.220728a52ca6