a) her voting record in Congress doesn’t determine whether she’s far left, b) by this definition, Gillibrand is also far left, as are Harris, Booker, and Sanders, c) Trump is not even close to centrist, so why can only a centrist defeat him?
This is a better line of critique, but Warren is also an extremely popular politician, which means she’s got the kind of political charisma that drives a strong candidacy. I think she does well connecting to people when she speaks, it’s what made her such a good teacher. The idea that policy doesn’t win elections is the wrong takeaway - policy details and wonkish arguments about how exactly to implement policy by compromising between different interest groups is what doesn’t win elections. What does win is a strong message with a clear goal that people actually want you to achieve, especially if you can explain it to them like folks, instead of like they were children who didn’t read the assignment. Donald Trump is an odious ass, but he had the right message to win a specific segment of the population away from Hillary. Stop playing the game of “who can win over the independent voter?” and start looking at who drives people to passionately support their candidacy. It might not be Warren who does the best job of it ultimately, but so far, she and Bernie are in the lead.
This is absurd. He is also a north easterner, so that clearly didn’t matter as much as messaging and charisma. She didn’t lose because of the South, she lost because of the mid-west, because there was a long history of dirt slung at her that played into her biggest weakness (being shady), and because there was a massive misogynist backlash against her presumed coronation and a racist/anti-elite backlash against Obama, which opened a window for an openly sexist, racist, and low-brow opponent. And even then, she lost because of some specific chance events that played out poorly. We could do worse than run a Hillary without the years of Clinton-bashing baggage.
Her voting record places her as the third most left leaning senator in the senate. I posted a link to this. From a left leaning site.
Yeah dude, you aren’t just far left, you’re way over the edge of the spectrum. Being to the right of you doesn’t make someone a moderate.
Both Bushes ran as Texans. Reagan ran as a cowboy from out west. McCain was from the southwest… Romney was from the Northeast, and lost.
The reality is that a lot of the country doesn’t particularly like the northeast. They’re viewed, rightly or wrongly, as being elitist.
And a harvard law professor from New England is really not a good way to turn that around.
She’s certainly better than Warren.
But again, I think her appeal to the middle is limited at best.
You’re never gonna win over the right wing… you need to win the middle. Or at least you need to get young folks super geared up for you. I’m not sure that Harris can do that. The far left likes her, but I’m not seeing the broad support for her among young folks that Obama brought out.
Again, Bush ran as a Texan… Trump certainly didn’t run as a New Yorker, and honestly, he won based on crazy racism from down south. Clinton when she ran was largely associated with the northeast.
And I don’t care if a bunch of people who may not struggle with their identity thinks politics is more important than that. That’s her identity, not some political game. That’s her right. The GOP and now the Democrats have decided that they can decide how others choose to identify, even when she has the DNA, actual proof, that she’s been right the entire time. Screw both parties and all the people who think like that.
So, you cannot list any policies she supports that make her far left. It does not matter where she scores in the Senate. She’s consistently liberal. Either “far left” has meaning, or it’s just more rubbish talking points. I demonstrated a far left view point.
I’m not saying Warren is a moderate, I’m saying she is a liberal. There is a distinction.
Let’s get this back to the bigger picture of the future of Democrats. On the topic of political framing and taxes, I want to go back to the idea that consumption taxes are a bad idea politically (and also a bad idea policy wise IMO) and that Dems should avoid them if and when they gain power.
Here’s a quote from one of Arnold’s campaign videos from a decade or so ago:
“I am in principle against taxing, because I feel that the people of California have been punished enough. From the time they get up in the morning, they go and get coffee, they’re taxed; they get into their car, they’re taxed; they go to the gas station, they’re taxed. And this goes on all day long. Tax, tax, tax, tax, tax.”
He’s complaining about being taxed “all day long” and what are his examples? Consumption tax (sale tax) on coffee, consumption tax (car registration tax) on cars, consumption tax (gas tax) on gas. This ad was very effective for Arnold b/c voters both dislike consumption taxes and more importantly, voters notice consumption taxes much more than income taxes. And, consumption taxes are either flat or regressive, AND, they bring in small revenue compared to income taxes.
Both politically and economically, income taxes should be the focus of Democratic tax policy. Income taxes come out of liquid funds in a regular fashion that people budget around, and don’t slap people in the face with little tax bumps “all day long”. And the pennies of taxes all day long make people vote against the dollars of proper progressive taxation.
This means I’m strongly against the Dems using sales taxes, gas taxes, car taxes, sugar taxes, and especially a VAT. I keep seeing people talk about a VAT b/c it’s used in Europe but in my view it would a political disaster in the US.
The pennsylvanians that Trump won kind of ARE the south. It’s affectionately known as Pennsyltukey, as the central and southern parts of PA are basically Kentucky/West Virginia.
Wisconsin and Michigan are midwestern states, and she lost those by not having any real ties to working class whites.
I’m just not going to bother.
Your idea that I’m just making this up shows how totally out of touch with reality that you are.
Why does the left leaning site I linked to think that she’s the third most left leaning senator? Did they just pull numbers out of a hat?
You realize that I’m not telling you this stuff as a “Ha ha dumb libtards!” right? I’m trying to show you your blind spot. Because I WANT YOU TO WIN.
Trump is a New York billionaire. He has a northeastern accent. He is as “elite” as it gets. “Elitist” is a term used by Republican propaganda operatives to describe whoever the Democratic candidate is. Remember Obama eating arugula and using dijon mustard on a burger? Obama was a Harvard Law editor and Columbia law professor from Chicago who won. Democrats do not need to pay any attention to this nonsense. No matter where the Democratic candidate is from, they’ll be attacked for it.
We keep playing the game by their rules, we keep losing. It is astonishing how willingly Democrats play into the right’s framing of pretty much everything.
It’s also a good way to lose control of the narrative as we’re seeing. The overwhelming line on this story isn’t how right she is. It’s how tenuous her claim is and how dumb the DNA strategy is overall.
The Pochohantas folks are wrong, and Warren still comes out a loser on this.
The fact this even came up as a talking point shows us just how racist and sexist this country is and for a minute, half a second, it looked like the Democrats wouldn’t play into it… but here we are.
Isn’t Arkansas kissin’ cousins to the Midwest? It neighbors Truman’s Missouri, anyway.
I don’t begrudge Warren trying to fight back. Trump brings up “Pocahontas” at every one of his rallies. She might only be 1/32 to 1/1024 Cherokee, but he is 31/32 to 1023/1024 Asshole.
The Democrats don’t need to allow the so-called moderates or the GOP to control this narrative. They called her a liar. They were wrong. They had no business calling her a liar in the first place. It’s time to stop allowing these people to control the narrative. That’s her identity. The Democratic party is a diverse party that doesn’t always agree but we sure as hell don’t need to strip the identity of other people away to make someone else feel like they got some sort of mentally screwed up “win”. That’s what they do.
Trump is a racist piece of shit. Anyone buying into that narrative, trying to blame her and not him and the people like him for this entire situation, needs to evaluate themselves. This isn’t about a particular person here but if anyone looks at this and thinks she did it wrong, we’ve already lost. You just gave GOP what they fight for and win with every-time, their narrative, their topics, their hate.
