This seems at least somewhat relevant, though I must admit that I haven’t read all this discussion on identity politics in detail.
I wrote a monstrous post but then recalled this one:
Yeah, this.
I would like to take a moment from the doom and gloom and territorial pissing for the following unbridled optimism from the field.
3rd quarter fundraising numbers have been released, and hoo-boy.
Game on.
I’ve seen that here. I’m working a bit on a local city council race. Right now it’s an attempt to get rid of the last Republican here in Greensboro. It’s currently in a runoff- though realistically, I think it will be a loss by about 2-3%, it’s turning out very similarly to the Ossoff race. Money isn’t an issue for either candidate. It used to be Dems here couldn’t even get four digits, but now the money is even.
The local conservative political rags are scared, and larger conservative groups are actually pumping money in to defend the seat, they don’t want to see a city council that’s 9-0 Democrat.
It won’t be a +1, but it good to know minorities are just a sacrificial lamb some are willing to easily get rid of. It also a huge assumption that I won’t go GOP. You don’t know they’ll have batshit crazy in that office forever. How nice of you to assume I’ll just stay home. I have voted in every presidential election since I was old enough to vote.
I am not the only socially liberal somewhat economically conservative member within the Democratic group. You’r also suggesting throwing away a vote you have now in the hopes, in the slim hope that you might make the Democrats look conservative enough to attract conservatives. I think the resources are better spent on getting the large groups that stayed home and not the white moderates who want to turn the Democrats into the old GOP.
In contrast to the people upset about supporting Democrats because they aren’t progressive enough… I’m for compromising like crazy right now. Blue dog Democrats? Pro-life Democrats. Pro-Guns-in-elementary-schools Democrats. Whatever.
I truly believe the rule of law, our institutions, and our democratic norms may not survive this Trump administration. I think it’s an existential threat that we curtail him as soon as possible no matter how many disagreements I have on policy decisions. With Trump (and the large portion of the GOP who support him and created this situation) – it’s an all hands on deck situation IMO.
OBVIOUSLY.
That’s good news, trig! Thanks for the ray of sunshine.
I’m in agreement here as well. However, I think there is a time and place to fight for your values- and that is in the Dem primaries.
what the DNC wants to do is stick their heads in the sand and think they can get away with business as usual. The Dem base likes Bernie Sanders more than they like the Dems themselves, and Bernie isn’t even a Democrat! That should say something when an independent is the most popular figure in your party.
You got to win elections. The socially liberal/economically conservative track is not what voters want these days.
What the voters didn’t want was Bernie, and they had a chance to show otherwise.
Primary electorates are not general electorates, and the 2016 election was everyone else rejecting HIllary.
Also remember Hillary came in with many massive advantages that were almost impossible to overcome. The fact that it was somewhat competitive despite that shows how bad Hillary was. A decent candidate would have had it wrapped by Super Tuesday with those advantages.
The most obvious solution is to run ‘progressives’ in Massachusetts or California or whatever, and ‘blue dogs’ in the swing states. But there is an effort to primary blue dogs right now.
You are the baby.
Primaries matter. And you have no proof whatsoever that the general electorate would have picked Bernie. That’s just your wishful thinking. Telling minorities they don’t matter to get out of the way for scared white guys to join the party, and telling anyone that doesn’t match your exact viewpoint that they need to leave too… sounds like your point of view is the other side of a Trump coin. It’s just another extremist position.
You cannot run the exact same liberal views you have on the west coast in the middle of the country and several parts of the east and definitely the south. The Democrats cannot win more of the country by becoming the actual socialist party the GOP accuses us of being, well minus the minorities since suddenly we don’t care about their votes anymore.
There has to be and can be room for dissent.
A lot of white folks think the Dems don’t care about their votes. It goes both ways.
When you’re constantly talking about the plight of minorities, non-minorities will feel like there’s nothing in it for them if you’re not talking about anything that will help them.
You just told me my vote doesn’t count, due to my race, due to my fiscal beliefs, and due to simply not agreeing with you. The difference between them and me, is they’re selectively hearing.
You traded me for Olaf in a post you erased. There was no doubt with that one.
And you’re still not listening, I said exactly what you are asking for up above, bring something to the Democratic table that improves their lives. I was talking about the middle class, and I didn’t specify race because I am talking about everyone. You can even scroll up where I bolded everyone before too. I simply believe you can bring the Middle Class to the table and you don’t have to exchange them and tell the minorities to f off while you do it.
What’s wrong with being an actual Socialist?
I believe you can improve things for minorities while still doing pocketbook politics. We’re probably talking over and through each other. I know as little as we have in common, we both oppose Trump, and for similar reasons. That’s enough for now, but I want to think long-term. I also deleted that post precisely because I knew you believe I would throw you out, when the reality is I want both you and the Olafs of the world if that is possible, though if it isn’t, I’ll choose the path that gives me the best chance of winning.
My biggest fear about the Dems is what happens beyond Trump. I have real concerns that the Dems will become a pure identity politics party and start becoming actively hostile to whites. It might be well-deserved after Trump, but it’s still a recipe for disaster.
I want the Dems to be a pocketbook party that works to improve things for all. That does not mean I don’t give a damn about issues of fairness- I do support them, I just know they don’t win elections- for Democrats. (They do win them for Republicans)
When identity politics becomes a pocketbook matter - things do change. See the NC Governor’s race, where HB2 and the toll lanes in Charlotte swung an election that Roy Cooper had no business winning in a normal year.
I would just settle for a party that wasn’t racist, thought science and expertise had value, and didn’t think it’s our patriotic duty to carry as many guns as we have pockets. Oh yeah, a president who had actually read the Constitution wouldn’t hurt.
Such a flaming socialist vision obviously isn’t realistic, however.
This. This right here is why I’m a Democrat.
Mainly because the Democratic party is not a Socialist party.
If you compare our parties to say parties in Europe we’re not even close to what is considered left in the first place. I am perfectly fine with socialists creating a valid party to vote for. Maybe one day I might consider one of their candidates, but I do not believe the Democratic party is or should be the new socialist party. So when socialist join the party and then demand to ship and sell the capitalist in the party down the river in a gamble… it’s offensive. Then you have the other group trying to cater the somewhat left right with what… socialism? and not only that, they’re willing to sell the minorities down the river, people who largely voted with the party, in a gamble to get the middle? Why on earth would the middle even consider that offer? And how conceited do you have to be to think the minorities are so easy and desperate they would just sign back up.
I know I am not the only one, not even close, who feels being with the Democratic party as it is today, is already a compromise. I certainly don’t control the party, but it would be a huge mistake to think that the votes the Democrats have today would stick around while the group demanding to be in charge spits in our face and tells us we have no where else to go.
You really don’t have to go that far in history to see where these parties changed and voting blocks shifted positions as a result…