Forgive the twitter link but it’s the best quickly googled example
https://x.com/MikeSington/status/1652004671383552000?lang=en
That’s like… all of reddit now. Scanning that site makes it look like everyone agrees that:
- Any job that requires you to leave your house is slavery
- Anyone espousing the virtues of hard work and ambition is a shill for the corporate overlords
- Nobody under the age of 60 will ever own a home
- Rents are so high, everyone but the boomers is teetering on homelessness
- Inflation is at something like 1,000%/ week
- Everything is hopeless
I know housing prices are up, and many people are having a tough time. My shock is over the general feeling that everyone (under 60) is basically one missed paycheck away from having to fight stray dogs in the street for scraps of food, that we’re all doomed and disputing that is crazy. There is some tremendous groupthink going on.
I feel, without any evidence, that a fair bit of this is targeted trolling.
Also the general undercurrent on the left that liking any politician is totally uncool so any positive mention of Biden must be prefaced with something like “I hate Biden as much as the next guy, but…”
Obama also seems like a good example of the value of running even when there is a presumptive nominee already. Clinton wasn’t an incumbent, but in the runup for 2008 with what was expected to be total party backing. But Obama turned out to be a phenomenal candidate and Clinton had some unexpected vulnerablities, so he got a surprise win.
I don’t know… It’s possible they do indeed believe that. Can it possibly be a correct belief for all of them though? The 2028 next Democratic primary will be hotly contested no matter what. There will be a dozen serious candidates, and there’s no heir apparent. The odds you’d give right now to any specific politician winning the nomination in 2028 are <10%.
In 2024 though? Given the specific circumstances around Biden, I just don’t see how the odds as the single challenger in 2024 were going to be worse than in a clown car in 2028.
Conversely, the party will in the end support whoever wins the primaries. And sure, you need some baseline level of support to be taken seriously and have any chance in the primaries. But the level isn’t that high, and doesn’t need to come from some narrow monolithic block. Sanders was a legit frontrunner with grassroots support rather than party elite support. Trump had no support at all in 2016.
It seems hard to believe that a popular governor or senator wouldn’t have enough close allies or chips to cash in to get that baseline level of support, and make a credible enough run that they’d be there to pick up the pieces if Biden started running into problems.
So it still seems surprising that nobody tried.
Nope, you must have ulterior motives to your opinion. The “they’re setting up a big ‘I told you so!’ event!” claim is so fucking dorky. I don’t know how much of that accusation is directed towards me as I’ve had concerns about Biden’s re-election chances but scoring some I-told-you-so points online is going to be the last thing on my mind when I’m staring down the gun of a second Trump presidency and all that means. Talk about a fucking consolation prize for watching the country burn down with my wife and I trapped in it.
It’s a high stakes election where things are looking like they could go either way. I’d find it weird if everyone was in lockstep and thinking/saying the same things.
Well, I don’t know what to tell you. If there had been some powerful viable Democrat that threw their hat in the ring against the party wishes, I’d be the one that would’ve been surprised. It sounds like an insane gamble to sabotage the incumbent and party like that.
For me some people come across as going much further than “I have big concerns about the election” or “I don’t like Biden’s odds right now” type of thing and end up more in a fatalistic Biden has already lost and the Dems should have run somebody else sort of place. I don’t think that’s particularly healthy or leads to helpful conversation, personally.
To be clear, I don’t think you’ve been doing any of that @KevinC. I think anybody who thinks either candidate has it in the bag here in May are very very wrong.
Sincerely, that’s good to know. Thanks. The accusations have been brought up a few times while I’ve been posting and I think I’ve been in the less optimistic camp so I’ve often wondered how much of that is being directed my way.
Yeah, I don’t think a civil war within the party is going to translate to better outcomes in the general in most situations. I would only expect to see that sort of opposition if the sitting president was buried in big scandals and refused to step aside, that sort of thing.
In recent history, anyway, Johnson gave up the nomination on his own and the Democrats lost, Ted Kennedy challenged Carter and the Democrats lost, Pat Buchanan challenged GHWB and the Republicans lost. Sure, a lot of other things happened in those races, too, and maybe the incumbent party was always going to lose, but it’s pretty hard to dismiss that track record with a wave of the hand.
I’m certainly not directing anything like that at you, Kevin, and I’m sorry if it seems like I am.
Of course, if you listen to right wing media – and I suspect many of those around you do, KevinC, based on what you’ve said! – that describes Joe Biden to a T. It’s just weird that, based on your media ecosphere, there’s this whole alternate reality where there’s a completely different race going on, despite the fact that it’s the same two candidates.
You are so right, Aleck. It is almost disorienting going from chatter around me (family, colleagues, casual conversations overheard, etc.) and local boards to Qt3 discussion. I feel like I’m slipping between dimensions.
The rightwing has become so untethered from reality I really have no idea how to fix it. Biden is the criminal using the power of the government to oppress righteous hero Trump. The US stopped oil production and that’s why gas prices shot up (strangely it gets talked about less when gas prices go back down, but if you ask them they’ll still insist we don’t produce anymore). I was told the border bill that was voted down by the GOP was going to allow 2 million illegal immigrants into the country a day. None of it makes any sense but they still fervently believe it, so I’m at a complete loss on what to do.
I think it’s believable that a weaker incumbent encourages an intra-party challenge, so it’s at least believable to me that the causation may run the other way (incumbent was already going to lose and this provoked a challenge, rather than the challenge caused the loss).
It wasn’t that way before 10/7. Back then there was criticism, but it was generally fair criticism.
There’s definitely a rift in the leftist community based on age right now. Those who remember the 2000s aren’t going to bust. Those who don’t are a lot angrier and might.
It’s hard not to get a bit fatalistic when you think your last best hope isn’t making the right calls. Life is finally good for me, and it could get ruined right before my wedding.
I’m dealing with three different realities right now: The Trumpy reality of my parents/work, the fairly rational mentality here (yes, I know I often go against that reality here, but I think facts are still ok here), and increasingly delusional talk from some leftists (and the fear and horror from older leftists at the younger ones. thankfully we remember Hillary 2016 so we know what not to say)
In retrospect, Clinton winning in 2008 would have probably been better for the country - Obama might have been the heir apparent in 2016, and Trump would have almost certainly lost vs. Obama than vs. Clinton. OTOH, Trump probably wouldn’t have been the nominee without Obama winning either.
Clinton winning 2008 means Romney wins 2012 and likely wins 2016 as things weren’t too bad from 2012-2016. also no ACA, I think Hillry wouldn’t have tried, and Obama wouldn’t have gotten it done.
Trump jacking off two guys is a stable on Bill Maher’s show. It pretty much always gets an audience laugh.
Maybe it wasn’t so much using words like “hate” but there was a lot of “I sure wish we had a younger candidate”, “both candidates suck”, “both candidates are too old”, etc. Not a lot of positivity there.
But as I’ve said repeatedly, the best thing those young leftists who are all amped up can do is get out and get their candidates on ballots and go out and support them. The presidential election is what it is at this point(between Trump and Biden that is), no amount of righteous fury will change that. Working on elections that are still open for filing and working on the next elections are both still able to be changed. But as far as the Presidential election goes at this point, a choice to “punish” Biden by not voting for him looks no different than apathetic non-voting. It doesn’t get the youth more political power, it guarantees they’ll have just as little. Getting your people elected gets you power. If that solution is upsetting to them or seems like too much work then I guess they don’t actually care as much as they claim to.
Or put another way, the ad with the old people encouraging young people not to vote. I know we’ve said it a bunch here and it comes across as directed at you. Sorry for that. But it’s clearly circles you run in that I don’t, so I don’t have much opportunity to try to reach those people directly.
I think he said he’ll work it into every episode until the election? It’s especially funny since Trump seems to “accidentally” watch his show pretty often. Either way, the last few months there have been episodes where it’s about the only part I’ve enjoyed. He’s gone so far into his hypocritical whining about the woke pro-Hamas youth at this point it’s pretty much unwatchable.
I know it’s directed at some of my “fellow travelers”, not me- I think most here (with a few exceptions) understand me better than that. That ad won’t work on them though- they see the Dems as holding them hostage, and much like the Tea Party/MAGA, they’re willing to shoot the hostage now, even if it hurts them.
It drives me nuts.
I fully agree with what the proper approach is, and the saner ones while disagreeing with me tend to at least respect that I agree with their policies, if not their tactics, and that I at least am offering a plan and am willing to fight something. Others just call me a shitlib.