In that case, then what is the point of graphics at all? Where on the Zork > Rogue > Doom > Unreal > Crysis timeline should we have stopped and said “there is no benefit beyond this”?
Oh, and my point was that eventually we will reach a time where you will not be able to tell the difference between reality and simulation, so I was just questioning if you would find that to be “anti-immersive”.
I’m not conditioned, I just prefer realistic graphics. It does depend on the genre. Open world games I like as detailed as I can get - Witcher 3, AC Odyssey. Platformer, something like Rayman Legends is good. Strategy, as long as it is clear and makes it easy to get info. I never like how pixelated stuff looks.
Somewhere around Crysis sounds about right to me. Maybe at Unreal, too.
The point is that there is a minimum here, a sweet spot between “there are no blanks for my imagination to fill” and “there are only blanks, my imagination can’t keep up”.
Which depends very much on how strong one’s imagination is.
As I said, it is a skill that can be improved. If one wants to improve that or not is another matter, all I’m stating is the fact that many are missing out on a lot by just outright disregarding things they don’t deem realistic enough.
I’m sure I’m missing out by completely disliking almost all anime styles. I could change that, if I wanted, but there are simply things more important to me that I prefer to spend my time on.
You are aware that this is something someone who is conditioned would say? ;)
We are all conditioned in one way or another, the important part is recognizing that and counteracting it if so desired.
Maybe a parallel would be painting versus photography.
Most people much prefer photography, especially as it gets better and better. But some prefer painting. Quite a few people at least see how painting can sometimes have value in its own right, without competing with photography in the realm of realism.
On the whole, i would find (good) painting more immersive. And, for example, upcoming Disco Elysium has very “painty” graphics.
I like that parallel. I love both painting and photography, though I find photography more immersive for sure.
But either way, I find that the biggest factor for immersion, as others have said in this thread, is the sound. When the sound feels right, it puts me into that world much more effectively than any other factor.
The gameplay discussion is interesting, I’ve never really thought about what gameplay “feel” has to do with immersion, if any. I always attributed Thief and System Shock 2 being the most immersive games based on the sound, but now that I think about it, there was something to the feel of that engine. The way you could mantle over things, and pull your self up. The fact that you could almost make a jump, but still “hang on” and pull yourself up the other side. Other shooters at the time and even other shooters that followed rarely had that type of feel for the character.
A notable exception is Mirror’s Edge, the 1st person parkour game from EA. I was a little too immersed in that one. When you fall from a tall building, it really makes you realize you shouldn’t be that immersed in a world. The falling really made me pull back on purpose.
That would be like saying I’ve been conditioned to like purple or prefer vanilla ice cream to chocolate. It isn’t conditioning it is just preference. Now maybe I prefer those things based on life experiences, it could just be genetic, or both. The thing is, just because you don’t prefer realistic graphics doesn’t mean those of us that do are just conditioned and don’t know any better :-)
An early immersive experience I remember was 688 attack submarine (1997). The graphics were very basic (you spend nearly all the time looking at the sonar plots anyway), and same with the sound.
But the setting and the gameplay (simulation) were very detailed/integrated, and I remember getting immersed into trying to sneak my sub into position, or trying to hide after getting spotted.
So my imagination was filling in huge blanks in this example.
Fast forward to today, and while I do love great video and sound, what still pulls me in is the integration of setting and gameplay.
I’d say Minecraft is another great example of the ‘less is more’ approach when it comes to immersion. Another first person, highly stylized world that I would add to my list.
First comment: This thread has convinced me to go get Subnautica on my PS4.
My perspective comes from someone who has been computer gaming since about 1980. The gaming world has changed a lot in that time. But when I reflect, the games that really stick with me are the ones that made me forget I was playing a game. Games in which “winning the game” was not the focus for me. I suppose that’s why I’ve never cared a bit about getting “achievements” in games.
The very first Wizardy. Wire frame graphics of the dungeons. But it so pulled me into its world, and I mourned the loss of a party member. A little remember game by Epyxx, Rescue at Rigel. You’re trying to rescue a number of people, all defined characters, held hostage on a hostile planet. And you only had so much time before you had to make it back to the extraction point, which meant you had to decide whether to risk being left behind and try to get that last hostage or be safe and leave the hostage behind. Crude graphics and sound by today’s standard, but like so many great games, it made me sweat.
Skyrim pulled me in that way, and it was the very open nature of the game that did it for me. I played the full game and the DLC as one character. And for much of the game I simply wandered all over the world, exploring. The story lines were actually just “eh” for me, but the world allowed me so much freedom to be this character, with a wife and kids in a house I built on a lake. The open nature of Red Dead 2 pulled me in the same way. I actually enjoyed much of the story, but I spend huge amounts of time just exploring the world. I suppose that’s why most of my game time is focused on open world games, they allow me to create my own stories and goals. I’m currently playing Division 2, and enjoying it, but it never lets me forget I’m playing a game with specific goals, etc (though even in that, I often enjoy just ignoring the specified missions and wandering around as a lone badass enforcer but also seeing what I can find.)
BTW, on music, more often than not in an open world game I turn the music off, so all I hear are the ambient sounds. A form of making it less of a “game.” However, I found Witcher 3 to be much better with the music on.
So yeah, not nearly as specific as the comments above, but in general the games that grab me and stay with me are the ones that make me forget I’m playing a game.
Far Cry 2 was the only one where I did that, on the insistence of Qt3 forum posters. I’m a big fan of the music in normal circumstances so I was reluctant to even try it that way, but Far Cry 2 made me a believer. It truly was a different experience with the music off, and a much better one.
I still leave music on by default though, unless posters tell me to try it without.
I’m gonna guess you’ll love Subnautica then, this game achieves this better than about anything else I can think of…largely due to the fact that they absolutely nailed the “feeling” of being under water. Feel is one of those things that is very intangible in games, but so important. Blizzard tends to be the best at this, and I think it’s one of the many reasons WoW was so successful, because when you give it a chance, the game “feels” good to play.
The timing and feel of game mechanics can really make or break a game for me, and Subnautica is a great example of a game that really nails that aspect of things.
I play Subnautica over Steamlink on tv for the immersion. Tis awesome.
I’ve recently been playing Assassin’s Creed: Odyssey, having gotten it for free from the streaming demo thing, and I’ve found it to be hugely immersive. I find the huge vistas (from the synchronization points, for example) over a decently-shaped, if drastically scaled down, ancient Greece absolutely wonderful. What really did it for me was going to Athens and seeing the Parthenon, the long walls (even if they’re too short), and on and on, and all in color! It’s one thing to read that ancient statues and temples were brightly painted, and try to imagine it, but another to actually scale the Acropolis and be face to face with it.
AC:O is not exactly a game that relies on strong characterization, but visiting the Pythia, (briefly) conversing with (the appropriately annoying) Socrates, running missions for Demosthenes (the other one), and so on, is really delightful. Granted, it’s all at a classics 101 level, but it’s a game about stabbing people when they’re not looking, so what do you expect. (Having Herodotus on your ship is a bit much, but I’ll take it.)
It inspired my to pick up my copy of Herodotus again (I was about 2/3 through), and even get a Thucydides from the library. That counts for something!
The main disclaimer is that this is the first AAA game I’ve played since Skyrim, so maybe I’ve just been missing out on good graphics for a while.
I would argue immersion, atmosphere and ambiance are 100% driven by graphics and sound. VR shows that. Add smell and touch… yeah.
How long that immersion lasts though is a more interesting question for me. Engagement is the key and is 100% driven by gameplay. Look at Chess. Not much in the way of graphics and sound there.
Graphics and sound are only as important for engagement as how they serve game mechanics. Sound in Thief, for instance.
I love 688. I actually got the same immersion from Red Storm Rising on the C-64. Actually on the 128, the plotting screen was “high def” so the icons were very small and sharp. I miss that game.
That my dude, depends entirely on who you’re playing with and what the stakes are :D
Strip chess?
Hmm… if that’s a thing, I might actually be motivated to learn it…
“Schurem!” (In Tahani’s voice from the Good Place). “How misogynistic of you. She is wearing lingerie from a clearance rack and her hair is dreadful.”
My man! Great game, and immersive. Let’s not also forget Silent Service, same genre and publisher, also awesome immersion.
I’ve seen graphics mentioned lot in this thread but I feel like many of us in the pre-PC and modern console age had just as many immersive moments in games that barely had anything to look at.
I had many immersive moments in some Microprose titles, early Ultima series, Bard’s Tale and Gold Box D&D series titles. A good story or setting, like a good book, allows your mind to fill in a lot of blanks.
So graphics in modern games help immersion, but certainly aren’t the end-all of immersion.
For those Microprose games, a good part of the immersion for me was provided by all the context given in their manuals. It goes along with what you said about the RPGs you mentionned.