People aren’t rational and if it’s not what he would have wanted then they shouldn’t have signed the contract (in the case of Love).
If you think it’s acceptable for the Cobain avatar to perform some songs that aren’t his own but not others then the problem is with the observer, not the actions of the avatar. Such people don’t respect the content the avatar is engaged in which is why they find it offensive. This is nothing but people’s prejudices against the content in question and seeing the representation of a person they respect engaged in it. It’s not disrespectful if you respect the content. Therefore the reaction is irrational and thus, there is nothing wrong with the action.
If you think it’s acceptable for the Cobain avatar to perform some songs that aren’t his own but not others then the problem is with the observer, not the actions of the avatar. Such people don’t respect the content the avatar is engaged in which is why they find it offensive. This is nothing but people’s prejudices against the content in question and seeing the representation of a person they respect engaged in it. It’s not disrespectful if you respect the content. Therefore the reaction is irrational and thus, there is nothing wrong with the action.
This is almost impenetrable so, with that, I think we can let this go now. :)
Just to reiterate:
In order to have Cobain perform a song in the game other than the Nirvana songs, one of the players has to make a conscious change to put him in the band. The same is true with the members of No Doubt in Band Hero. The famous folks just don’t show up randomly in the lineup once they’re unlocked. If Cobain starts singing “You Give Love a Bad Name” then one of the players set him to be the singer.
And for Gwen, I’ve actually played Band Hero (the game that she’s in) and the game will switch out male and female singers as needed, so that the appropriate gender character is singing the song. The only time that it doesn’t do that is when the player is the one doing the singing. So to have Gwen singing, say “Do You Really Want to Hurt Me?” the player has to set their character to be Gwen Stefani, choose to be the singer and then start the song. The player has to consciously set the ball rolling to get to an inappropriate situation.
If you’re trying to gracefully disentangle yourself from a discussion that you feel isn’t going anywhere, then I apologize; however, I have to disagree with you here. It’s pretty clear that he’s referring to your comment about a “well-loved musician performing rap music.” That statement reveals an off-handed dismissal on your part of a (at this point) well-established and respectable genre. Is all rap music respectable? No. But is all music of any genre respectable? Also no.
I find your implication that Kurt Cobain is somehow “above” rap music as offensive as anything else mentioned so far in this thread.
Let’s say there was a - say - Tom Chick model in a game. He’s there for cutscenes where he talks extensively about hotkeys. However, most of the game is about performing fellatio on goats. Tom Chick didn’t quite get that just by being in the game to talk about the aforementioned hotkeys it would be possible for the players to make his character suck off goats. Tom Chick fans may get het up that there’s a machine for manufacturing images of him sucking off goats - some of them may like it, because he’s got that sort of fanbase, but generally they think it’s really not him. And if Tom Chick knew that they could do that, he wouldn’t have signed the deal, because using his image in such a way… well, he’d rather not be seen sucking off goats if he has any say in it*.
Accidentally selling your image to a machine which makes you appear to suck off goats is something I think you have a right to feel a tad annoyed about.
(I’m pretty amused that people anyone thinks that Cobain covering Pearl Jam would actually be less offensive to the people who are offended.)
KG
*He prefers sucking off goats in the privacy of his own home
Sorry you feel that way. If your point is that you really cared about Kurt Cobain and loved his music, and you feel it’s disrespectful and that the game’s producers shouldn’t have implemented his inclusion in the game that way, then you’re perfectly free to feel that way. Personally, I don’t care about Kurt Cobain, or his music, and I thought he was a tool. Johnny Cash, on the other hand, I have huge respect for, but I still can’t get too worked up over the idea of an in-game representation of him wiggling his hips and singing a Beyoncee song or whatever.
If your point is that you think the game producers are going to alienate potential customers with this behavior, and you think they’re fools to do it, then that’s a much less subjective, and in my opinion, more defensible position. The people who made the call obviously don’t agree, however.
Sorry you feel that way. If your point is that you really cared about Kurt Cobain and loved his music, and you feel it’s disrespectful and that the game’s producers shouldn’t have implemented his inclusion in the game that way, then you’re perfectly free to feel that way. Personally, I don’t care about Kurt Cobain, or his music, and I thought he was a tool. Johnny Cash, on the other hand, I have huge respect for, but I still can’t get too worked up over the idea of an in-game representation of him wiggling his hips and singing a Beyoncee song or whatever.
That’s great. But can you at least recognize that it might upset other people? And maybe that’s an issue?
As I said, you (and by extension other people) are free to feel that way. I don’t condemn that opinion at all. If a lot of people are upset by it, and comparatively few people buy this version, I think that’d send a pretty clear message to the publishers that they shouldn’t try something like that again.
Just because I don’t agree with you doesn’t mean I think you’re wrong. ;)
I guess I’m coming from the angle that the contract didn’t state at all that their likenesses can be used outside of No Doubt songs. I haven’t seen the text of the complaint, but things that have come out point that the band (or their reps) demanded they could only be used in the 3 No Doubt songs.
The suit also charges that the game allows users to manipulate No Doubt characters to sing songs popularized by other pop music acts. No Doubt’s contract with Activision allowed the company to use the band’s music and likenesses in no more than three of the band’s own songs, the suit says. The game, which was released Tuesday, puts the group members’ images, collectively and individually, into more than 60 songs, “many of which include lyrics, contained in iconic songs, which are not appropriate for No Doubt and have not been and would not have been chosen by No Doubt for recordings or public performances.”
Specifically, the suit notes that through the game’s Character Manipulation Feature, Stefani’s image can be induced to sing the Rolling Stones’ “Honky Tonk Women.”
“While No Doubt are avid fans of the Rolling Stones and even have performed in concerts with the Rolling Stones,” the complaint says, “the Character Manipulation Feature results in an unauthorized performance by the Gwen Stefani avatar in a male voice boasting about having sex with prostitutes.”
The suit says Activision executives withheld disclosure of the character-manipulation feature and refused the band’s request to remove or disable it in conjunction with the No Doubt avatars after the band learned how they were being used. The complaint says Activision officials told the band that doing so would be “too expensive.”
Specific bolding by me. To me it sounds like they agreed to terms of using the band likeness in the 3 No Doubt songs and none of the others. When they found out it went beyond the agreement, Activision said it would be “too expensive” to fix.
It will be interesting to see how this falls out. Would be nice to see the text of both the contract and the complaint.
Not directed at you specifically, but didn’t gamers come to the conclusion that avatar representations within games are abstracted enough from reality that we shouldn’t be offended by anything, i.e. Modern Warfare 2 terrorist attacks?
Or alternately, if you’re going to be offended by a rendered Cobain rapping, shouldn’t you be equally offended by Nirvana’s music being in the game at all? Why is one more sacrosanct than the other? Have you heard some of the “performances” of their music? IT OFFENDS MY EARS.
I totally misread this threads title and understood that for some inexplicable reason Activision were being sued because musicians are over-represented in games, like some kind of twisted misapplication of affirmative action.
