All-purpose gun legislation thread


#21

Obligatory Onion video


#22

Common don't make it right. As for CCW it seems like a crazy thing at first but the U.S. experience with it so far has been astoundingly quiet, so I think it's here to stay. I think there's an analogy somewhere with motorcycles, 1/3 of people who have an accident on motorcycles are unlicensed, 2/3 never attended any sort of training class. The irresponsible people generally won't bother getting the license.


#23

Yeah, that's why I mentioned requiring FFL's to do this for a nominal fee. I like your idea of a centralized background check station at the gunshow idea though - that makes complete sense.


#24

If you look at the history of "states rights" ideology, it was largely the pragmatic formula of conservatives who had previously been quite happy to use massive federal authority to get what they want - if they could control that authority to their own ends.

The same folks who got their way with "states rights" in the post-Civil War era had gotten their way with a federal fugitive slave law, a gag rule in Congress on discussing slavery, and a federal ban on distributing abolitionist literature back when they still had a grip on national politics. Federal power became evil when they lost it.

Didn't hear much about states rights from American conservatives when the US Army was invading Boston to march Anthony Burns back to slavery in Virgnia in 1854.


#25

Oh please, it's a matter of practicality. Having all the infrastructure in place isn't a requirement for proposing or passing legislation, nor should it be as it's silly to spend money on something that isn't even law yet. Most times the legislation is passed without going into effect until that infrastructure exists.

This isn't hard and you're getting hung up on an exceptionally small implementation detail of what is a question of policy. Considering there's already a process to background checks this seems like even more of a nit pick, they simply need to make that process available to the public.


#26

I understand that it often happens this way, but I haven't seen anything in the bill itself that addresses the shortcoming. Wouldn't there usually be verbiage to that effect, that it will only apply after such and such is available for a period of time? Maybe that sort of cleanup language goes in later.

H.


#27

Well, HR 822 did pass.

It will be interesting to see how they do this going forward now.

As mentioned, you just need 1 qualifying CC permit to be valid in any state that does NOT prohibit CC.

You STILL have to follow individual state gun laws.

ABout states' rights, and "the right", you nailed it. When they are not for states rights, they spin them as "States' Powers" or whatever.

http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Federal/Read.aspx?id=7158

Opponents of the legislation also claim that it tramples on each "states' rights." But states don't have rights, only powers....

As for CC, I support it. Do you open carry alot? There is no reason to ban CC. A felon, who is most likely a prohibited posessor in the first place, isn't going to care if he is breaking a CC law while CC'ing.

All a prohibited CC law will do is turn legal possesors into criminals. I know it sounds like bumper sticker logic, but it is true.

When you see someone open carry, or not know when someone is CC, does it really change anything?

If it does, then this is the reason I CC. I don't want someone calling the cops on me because "they saw someone in the Costco parking lot with a gun". Now, it hasn't happened to me, but it does happen in a lot of states.

In AZ, we do have lax gun laws. So it's not so shocking seeing someone open carry. Hell, we don't even need a CC permit anymore to CC. We only need a CC permit to carry firearms in bars are places that serve alcohol. An AZ CC permit was also good in other states, but with HR 822 passing, it's good in pretty much all states except Illinois and DC.


#28

Can private establishments ban guns in AZ?


#29

Yes. Bars for example usually put up a sign. We call them "Gun Buster Signs". If there isn't a sign, the owner can still ask you to leave if you are carrying.

If you refuse to leave, you can be fined and forcibly removed by the cops.

Certain public government buildings can also ban firearms (court house for example).


#30

Yes.

If it does, then this is the reason I CC.

Perhaps the solution then is to NOT carry. If you don't want people reacting to you as though you're carrying a lethal weapon then don't carry a lethal weapon!

Concealment prevents people from making reasonable decisions. You expect transparency in your government, I expect transparency when it comes to safety, both my personal safety as well as public safety. A gun does present a safety concern, one I would rather have to choice to minimize by crossing the street or leaving the premises. Your concealment of a deadly firearm prevents me from taking action which will help protect my safety.


#31

I am actually LOLing, irl.

but but... it's my RIGHT to carry, and my choice to OC or CC (depending on the weather). My concern is not your safety, or how uncomfortable you feel with me carrying.

I do CC when weather permits (it gets 110F in the summer, long coats out of the question). I have no control on how you feel about me OC or CC. I have no right to tell you how to react (so I CC), but don't suggest I not CC because of how you feel about it.

I don't OC just as a show of force. Honestly, if I saw a crime in progress, most likely, I would let the crime happen, and then just co-operate with a police report afterwards. Mainly because I don't want the hassle of the cops questioning why I pulled out a deadly weapon, and I don't trust cops.

If a crime happening against me, whether or not physical harm is going to happen to me, the gun is out, period.


#32

CC people are strange.

States' rights is just a tactic, no one sincerely believes in it. Look at the Defense of Marriage Act, or GOP federal efforts to ban abortion.

.....stopping the current practice where felons are too-easily regaining their gun rights.

What are the current standards?


#33

Well, carry on. Martinez heard the call.


#34

My concern is with people who carry weapons not because they are transporting them, but because they think that they are going to need them. It indicates that you have poor risk identification and that you are not a rational thinker.

If a crime happening against me, whether or not physical harm is going to happen to me, the gun is out, period.

I'm glad that you think that people deserve to die for misdemeanors and/or stealing your property. It really says a lot about how you value possessions more than people.


#35

Wow, do you really believe this? It's kind of the foundation of our country. I would argue most Americans believe in state's rights.


#36

As would most people, but Jason is a special case, what he believes and what reality is dont meet all that often.


#37

Funny how conservatives claim that they believe in states rights until they can do what they want on the federal level.


#38

I would argue that most American's dont care much one way or another, until it's a convenient rallying cry for opposing federal legislation they dislike.

I don't deny there are people who legitimately care about state's rights, but they probably aren't the people on the TV making noise about the topic.


#39

I cant think of anything that I want to do at the federal level that would make it so I could not believe in states rights. If you want to make sure blanket statements about all conservatives you should at least have some examples.


#40

Well, I hope I'm not going to need to draw my firearm, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't carry. I've been wearing seatbelts for as long as I can remember, but I've never needed to wear it. Never been in a car accident. After 30 some odd years, does this mean I should stop wearing seatbelts? I mean, I know car accidents happen, but damn, I've never got in one.

I've laid down my motorcycle ONCE. In fifteen years, I've always wore a helmet. I'm glad I wore it that one time I went down.

Is it irrational to think that I should always wear my seatbelt while driving?

As for people deserving to die for looking at me cross, that's silly. Drawing my firearm does NOT mean I have to pull the trigger. I hope that the threat of me drawing my firearm is enough to deter the perpetrator to stop in his tracks.

I'm not looking for trouble. I don't go down "dark alleys" playing Punisher looking for drug dealers.

In all my life, I've been witness to 4 crimes, and NONE of them warrent me drawing my weapon. One actually induced hysterical laughter.

Does this mean I should stop carrying? No. I work in a courthouse. I know voilent crime does happen. I know that at least I'm somewhat prepared to defend myself and mine.