This is totally fair. It’s just one guy. It’s not a basis for sound policy.
But at the same time, we can’t just pretend like what happened in the anecdote was actually the opposite of what happened.
Like you said, he won the lottery. But we can’t say, “He actually lost the lottery. This is a terrible outcome.” Because it’s not. It’s likely a better outcome than if he weren’t armed.
Skipper - thanks for sharing your story. I’ve owned guns all my life, but still won’t keep a loaded gun ready to use.
There was one time when I witnessed a huge guy drag a girl by her hair 20 yards to his truck, her screaming the entire time. I drove up next to him and told him to let her go, but he growled at me, tossed her into his car & drove off. I chased him, and reported our location on my CB (no cell phones back in the 80’s) and came around a bend and saw a cop had an identical car pulled over as the guy in front of me raced by. I stopped and shouted at the cop “that’s him right there” - the cop looked up, saw the car, jumped into his & gave chase. A few miles down the road, he had the guy pulled over.
I pulled up behind the cop’s car. He had the guy in the backseat already and the guy strained to look over his shoulder and never waivered for the 20 minutes I was there giving the police my report. The guy just glared at me.
For the next 3-4 weeks up until the court date, I kept a loaded gun in my house. He never came. But I did feel safer & scared at the same time. That’s been over 30 years ago - and I have yet to have any other reason to keep one loaded since then. The potential for harm is just too great as news stories point out.
Thanks man, the same for your story. What shook me I guess was the realization that things get real, really fast. My dad always kept a loaded gun in the house, somewhat hidden due to the kids. I’ve also nearly been carjacked before. Protecting myself seemed the norm, what i should do. There are things in your life that lead you to situations that are entirely your own doing. Had I shot her, that would have been devastating.
That was a scary situation for me. I’m not sure I want to repeat that. I don’t want to prevent people from protecting themselves, but I have pause now for myself.
Anecdotal I know, but most people live in a world of anecdotes, not statistics.
Shit like this is why a lot of people are “pro-gun”:
Somewhat related, 911 services and location provisions are no joke. We have to provide those within some of our larger work locations just to speed up location for someone in need of assistance. Failure to do that is a very big deal.
It would also be peachy if cops had to like… make a reasonable attempt to save you, but they really don’t.
They are good about swat invasions if you are suspected with marijuana in the house though.
Maybe if you’re in real trouble you should call 911 and say you’re going to behead someone because you are a Mueslin? I’m sure SWAT will kick in your door before you hang up the phone.
This is somewhat related to the helpful hint of shouting “Fire!” instead of “Help”.
Anecdotal from the year 2012, after which police changed their protocol on domestic violence calls.
Police get calls on domestic violence literally all the time, every day. People yell loudly and scream at each other. Neighbors hear them screaming then hear a loud crash, the police get called over but the couple is having sex, and the woman says he’s never hit her once, ever. People probably cry wolf on 911 too. Not saying this example is right, looks like a huge fuckup. But the US is also 300 million people so we could at least keep pro-gun anecdotes to recent news.
Last year in this thread I actually monitored every gun defense story for a month and couldn’t find a single example all that compelling. Lots of young black guys getting killed, typically shot in the back while running away from an armed robbery by a “good Samaritan”, when the clerk back in the 7-eleven is fine.
Here’s the opposite story from Everett, WA that just happened.
A woman was home alone when two men kicked down the door and entered. She locked herself in the bathroom, but they burst in on her. She was defenseless. They assaulted her and stole her jewelry, then ransacked the house and left. Other than minor injuries from having her jewelry snatched off her, the woman was thankfully unharmed.
On the one hand, anti-gun folks can point to this and say, “See? They didn’t really want to harm her and a gun would’ve just escalated the situation. None of the material goods are worth a human life.”
On the other hand, home defense advocates will say, “She was lucky. They could’ve raped her or killed her and there’s nothing she could’ve done about it because retreating to the bathroom didn’t work. Are you willing to gamble with your life if someone breaks into your home while you’re in it?”
Statistically and logically, I know which side I fall on. Emotionally, I’ll be damned if I wouldn’t want my wife to have some recourse other than “hope for the best and pray for mercy.”
It would be nice if this would go down in a R-on-R fight over state vs federal power, but I don’t think even the Freedom Caucus is willing to oppose the gun lobby over principle. Would be nice to be wrong, though.
This is where I diverge from my otherwise liberal views, somewhat.
I understand completely why this would be bad. A state should be able to enact it’s own laws, after all, it is something the GOP seems very keen on anyway.
But where I have issue is the demonizing of concealed carry -as a whole- that I see from some people. Not referring to you @ineffablebob, I’m talking about some folks that chide me locally being a gun owner, and in general, many who just want nothing to do with guns. Some people misunderstand everything about the concealed carry program. It is exactly one of the things many people want, combined with one thing they do not. To carry concealed you MUST be certified to do so, passing a course covering a number of items related to laws, as well as gun safety and shooting practice. You must also do so with a registered firearm. The laws restricting where you can carry that firearm are not trivial, and include schools, government buildings, any location that serves alcohol, any place where firearms are prohibited, etc, etc, etc. The lone negative, of course, is people actually carrying a concealed weapon.
Here’s the thing, they can carry those same weapons, unconcealed, without a lot of those restrictions above.
Here’s the other thing, many (most?) states already have reciprocity laws for concealed carry permit holders. NC does for sure and it covers many other states.
So if we’re looking at the middle ground here, we WANT people to understand laws around gun ownership, understand gun safety, and have some semblance of how to shoot a weapon. We also WANT restrictions on where they can go with those guns, how they have to present them to law enforcement, etc. We probably DO NOT WANT them carrying a concealed weapon.
But hey, they can do it anyway, they just have to have it outside their pocket. If we’re going to pick places to change laws, I would assume we should start with every firearm should be registered, and every gun owner get that same training that now, only specific individuals are required to do. Preventing reciprocity for concealed carry … not as high on the totem pole, for me anyway.
The problem with reciprocity is that there is no universal standard. Some states literally are “whatever just do it.”
Most states with reciprocity are basically in a situation where State A is more strict than State B, so State B allows for State A permits. The problem comes with say… Wyoming versus California. They have very different rules.
I mean a federal reciprocity would be nice, sometimes I have to go to Minnesota and my permit is useless there, but it’s very much screwing over state’s rights. If they enacted some sort of “Federal Permit” it could work, but I’m betting they wont do that because that would require work, oversight and regulation.
I can’t see this happening either. Not just because it would require work, but because they are having fun playing with shit as though the teacher isn’t in the classroom. Healthcare, privacy, giving rich people a few more advantages, giving gays a few less, the standard GOP wishlist.
[quote]
A National Rifle Association employee accidentally shot himself while doing firearms training at the organization’s headquarters, according to police.[/quote]
Sounds about right for the modern NRA.
When you’ve moved all your resources into propaganda, you no longer have time to do the basic firearms safety that the NRA was originally created for.
Murder-suicide apparently.
Two adults dead. Two children medevaced to trauma center.
Man, poor San Bernardino.