No offense, but maybe this isn’t the thread for you, friendo.
I’m not good at sugar coating stuff for you sorry :(
There is sugar coating, and there is being aggressively wrong.
Your simplistic formulation is the latter. Suggestions like turn out from the internet some time before bed, avoiding certain behaviors, etc. are far more likely to be beneficial to Jeff. The myriad of 1 am threads I’ve seen Jeff start indicate that he needs to ‘turn off’ earlier than I would. Can I do (literally anything) and fall asleep quickly after 11pm? Yes, yes I can. But I am not Jeff.
I do see the myriad of things said, problem is that if you get up at 10 in the morning, you’re not going to be tired at 11…and if you keep thinking, wee its late, I should be sleeping now, then you are going to suffer for it.
I have first hand experience with people who has had these issues, its aggravating to see them fail to understand that its not about going to bed, its about getting up from it.
The routine starts there…
You’re doing the equivalent of coming into a thread about depression and saying, “Have you tried, like, not being sad? Just take a walk and smile more, jeez.”
Not to be a dick, but that shit can fuck right off.
Be fair to Janster; they are trying to diagnose the underlying problem, which in the depression analogy would actually make the rest of our advice about relaxation the “try smiling” approach.
But Janster’s diagnosing the wrong problem since Jeff is already tired and he’s struggling with the anxiety that pushes him awake well past the 16 hour mark.
Janster quite obviously shouldn’t be phrasing advice as “Just ____, it’s that simple.”
I’m curious to hear how you’re doing with these suggestions, Jeff!
Absolutely. Having a routine can be very important. Consistent go to bed or wake up times definitely help.
And, hey, sometimes a nap is exactly what you need.
It’s not that having a routine is bad advice. It is positioning it as the only advice that is the issue.
This. Its not a one size fits all situation. I am a good example. I get up at around 5:30 am and go to bed at 10pm rather regularly. That’s 16.5 waking hours and 7.5 sleeping hours. I am routinely exhausted at bed time and yet have great difficulty actually getting to sleep. At least I used to. The issue is that I have rheumatoid arthritis as well as a few other attendant immunity related diseases. This wears me out and I am tired pretty much all of the time. The not being able to get to sleep issue is a combination of mind and pain. I took great pains to get my sleeping environment as sleep conducive as possible but without something to limit the pain and slow down my mind, I still had issues. It was actually my doctor’s recommendation to use medicinal marijuana, preferably in edible form to help. And help it did. Greatly. It also helped me get off the legal opioids I was using for pain maintenance. That’s why I have no use for the dismissive bullshit that Janster is pedaling. Its great if the simple solutions work for you but they do not work for everyone and presenting it as such is the issue here. The advice is good as far as it goes and can be a piece of the puzzle but it is not the “trust in this and ignore everyone else” answer he seems to think it is.
Well, I think i mentioned it, but again, if its a diagnosed issue, then its a whole different ballpark, I’m not sure my advice will help Jeff, that’s for sure, but if you are just normal sleepless…I think they work best…
I would advice against medicine first, and I still think you can try anything you want at bedtime…
I take Trazadone at night, which helps me to get to sleep. But what I’m finding harder than falling sleep, is convincing myself to get into bed. There’s a few problems here. One, my lungs are getting worse again, so getting into bed means painful coughing spasms. Two, sometimes when I’m falling sleep I feel Iike I’ll stop breathing and not wake up. That’s why I mentioned being on the ventilator and in a coma. It kind of creates some irrational? fears.
For a logical person, the anxiety of going to bed is perplexing. It should be such an incredibly easy thing to do.
Sorry to hear that, this is certainly more than just what regular advice an do for you. However I’ve seen the toughest people struggle with sleep who don’t have anything like what you’re going through.
Probably a dumb question, but do you sleep on your side? I realize your breathing issues go far beyond mine (which are due to allergies/asthma), but I had always been a dedicated back sleeper and only recently (!?!) discovered that sleeping on my side really helped when my lungs were especially gunky. I used to just prop up pillows to sit more upright while sleeping, but turning on my side really helps. You probably already knew that, but I sure wish I knew that fact years ago!
Another weird thing that (unintentionally) helps me sometimes is not actually getting ready for bed. There have been nights I have been so exhausted that I don’t even bother turning out the light. I just roll into bed in my t-shirt and a comfy pair of shorts, close my eyes “for just a few minutes until I have the energy to wash up properly,” and boom, I wake up 5-6 hours later instead with the lights still on. It’s like I am tricking myself into thinking I’m not really taking the final stressful action of going to bed yet, so I fall asleep easier like taking a nap. Of course, you probably want to at least brush your teeth earlier before trying this method (because, ewww!).
That’s hilarious but it makes sense! If you hate going to bed, just never go to bed. :D
I wish I could sleep on my side. I used to sleep the best like that. But after I was on a vent, it messed up my chest and my lower ribs poke through my sides so much it’s painful. But I still do turn to my side and lay there for as long as I can manage (usually just a couple minutes), because it is the way I want to sleep. I wish I could find some way to cushion them so I could stay that way. Maybe if I could find squares of temperpedic foam or something?
I’d like to thank everyone for their kind advice. I’m trying to out as many suggestions I can into practice. It’s 2:00 am and I’m in bed (though on my tablet to post this). I’ve tried to cut down on the meals and fluids I have at night and have a sleep apnea test coming up to make sure I’m not having breathing issues while I’m asleep contributing to subconscious anxiety.
I’m also trying to walk every day to rebuild some endurance as I’m very weak, and I do a bit of cleaning every night as well. Funny thing is I now have a crash at ~5:00 and want nothing more than to take a 3 hour nap at that point. So weird.
Perfectly normal to get tired in the daytime, a powernap of 15-20 min never hurt, and you will feel a lot better afterwards. When do you get up in the morning?
Sometimes. If we’re talking about insomnia, then it’s a different story.
Napping isn’t for everyone. In fact, some people find napping counterproductive. Although reducing sleep pressure can combat fatigue, it can also interfere with your ability to fall asleep at bedtime. People who have trouble falling asleep or staying asleep at night, for example, those with insomnia, may want to avoid napping.
When I was doing CBT-I, naps were expressly forbidden because they actively interrupt the process. More extreme CBT-I actually involves sleep restriction (which I did, and though it was ROUGH for the first week or so, actually worked for me.)
This procedure, developed by Arthur Spielman, is designed to eliminate prolonged middle of the night awakenings. It doesn’t aim to restrict actual sleep time but rather to initially restrict the time spent in bed. Subsequent steps consist of gradually increasing the time spent in bed. The initial time in bed is usually the average nightly total sleep time over the last week. However, the time allowed in bed should not be less than 5.5 hours, even for people who sleep less than 5.5 hours per night.
For example, consider a person who goes to bed at 11:00 p.m. and gets out of bed at 8:00 a.m. but sleeps on average only 6 hours per night. During the first step of this procedure this person will be in bed only 6 hours (e.g., 12:00 a.m. to 6:00 a.m.). This sounds harsh but after a week or so there will be a marked decrease in time spent awake in the middle of the night.
Usually people experience marked improvement in the quality of sleep after a week of restricted time in bed, but they also realize that that they are not getting enough sleep. In this case, the next step is to gradually extend the time spent in bed by 15 to 30 minutes, as long as wakefulness in the middle of the night remains minimal.