Ok so they both have the Weaver. I see Avatar and I want to know: where is my Vasquez!? where is my Ripley!? Old Cameron is best, I liked it before it was Titanic cool, etc… (disclaimer: posted by someone who is drunk enough to admit he likes butch gals, go have a dude approved White Russian) Thoughts?
“I guess she didn’t like the cornbread either”
Ok. So I have repeated something someone said somewhere in a 37 page thread started 6 months ago?
Why do I sill feel like an epic failure?
(what does hicks represent about cameron’s idea of mahood? what about hudson?)
“Uh oh, I made a clean spot here, guess I’ll have to do the whole thing.”
“It won’t make any difference.”
“MARINES, WE ARE LEAVING!”
“I may be synthetic but I’m not stupid.”
“I see you.”
-TomDelightful sigh. The demigod chimed in :D “They don’t kill you! She’s alive! She’s Alive!” Mr Chick you are my hero, you are the avatar, when I listen to your silky smooth voice on podacasts… swoon (2 times a week is barely enough and I appeciate you, Kelley Wand, Christian Muras.as…) Drunkenly Yours, Q*bert911 (ps i promise no stalking)
What being who has or has thought of having a penis does not appreciate Ripley duck-taping together a plasma blaster and flamer? Arguably this happened previously in Phantasm 2… but I was to scared to watch that at 8 (pussy) so I’m not sure.
“Grab on to me! Hold on!”
“Get away from her you bitch!”
It’s not clear to me how all the maternalistic quotes here relate to someone who likes tough women.
I’ll throw in for the hell of it. I found the moment to moment writing in avatar significantly less grating than aliens, but aliens was better for plot, sort of main characters even though he didn’t create the main one, and structure for lack of a better term off the top of my head.
and structure for lack of a better term off the top of my head.
Structure is actually the perfect term. Aliens is a masterpiece of Hollywood screenwriting structure; my brother and I have studied it for years and are always amazed at its compactness, its sense of purpose in each scene, and in the way Ripley’s character arc (via her relationship with Newt) dovetails with the external action. The pacing is also amazing (he delays any real contact with the aliens* until the midpoint, yet gives us little tastes and foreshadowings of action/horror along the way – the early dream scene, the dropship, the first encounter with Newt, and the glimpse of the facehuggers suspended in liquid). As a model of ensemble characterization it’s exemplary: all the supporting Marines are introduced swiftly and efficiently so that we understand what they’re all about. The moment Apone pops the cigar into his mouth upon awakening from cryo sleep, you know what you need to know about him. One line of dialogue (“You’re just too bad”) plus a handshake/eye-contact immediately sets up the relationship between Drake and Vasquez, etc.
But I also think Aliens has some of Cameron’s best dialogue – particularly Hudson’s, which is some of the best comic relief in any sci fi film, great because rather than being a typical “clown” character, he’s scared out of his mind and full of gallows humor, so you don’t feel goofy or guilty for laughing. (Compare to “I need a vacation,” which is by far the worst line Cameron ever penned.)
The problem with Avatar, in a nutshell, is that the structure is solid but there’s nothing in it to make it sing, nothing fresh or spontaneous (at least at a writing level, as opposed to a VFX level.) It’s sort of as if someone wrote a piano sonata where all the structural beats were correctly hit (exposition, development, recapitulation, etc.) with conservatory-exam skill, but the composer couldn’t come up with any memorable melodies or themes. You’d respect the craft but wouldn’t particularly desire to listen to it.
*I’m referring to the theatrical cut here; I think it was the correct choice to remove the early LV-426/colonists sequence, which serves little purpose and breaks the suspense that’s achieved by staying with Ripley until the arrival on the planet.
Pretty much this. [IMG]http://knowyourmeme.com/i/23653/original/snapshot20091022164942.jpg?1256223340[/IMG] Concise writeup Gordo :D
For me, Aliens is some of Cameron’s worst dialogue, so the moment to moment experience in Avatar never made my ears bleed the way Hudson does, but there was never any real tension there or any thing compelling me to really care about the movie. Even though I wanted many of the speaking parts in Aliens to die as fast as possible to shut them up, I was still hooked, right there, on the edge of my seat and caring about how it all played out. Of course, I find the Alien universe more interesting than whatever generic blah was fueling Avatar.
You are completely bizarre. I don’t understand how a human being with all his faculties can go to a modern blockbuster and not have his ears bleed. There’s so much groan-inducing cheese, subtle political comments, and sheer waste in just about every popular movie I go to. The 80s action movies are a breath of fresh air in that regard, maybe because they’re over the top you can pretend that someone did not actually write the script of this modern movie in earnest.
It’s funny that our experience of the dialogue was so different. Aliens’s dialogue had the whole hoo-ah marine thing going on, but in a fun, ironic way; the characters felt clever and seemed to be responding to their situation with intelligence. Avatar’s dialogue didn’t have any groaners, but it just felt flat and routine throughout.
Cameron has never been a Mamet or Tarantino and never will be, but I don’t think he writes consistently bad dialogue. He just seems to let that aspect of his writing slide sometimes once he’s worked out the structure (Avatar, Titanic).
never made my ears bleed the way Hudson does
I completely disagree about this, of course. Hudson is Cameron’s greatest creation, dialogue-wise. Most screenwriters would kill to have a line enter the pop-culture lexicon the way “Game over, man!” has.