Avengers 2: Age of Ultron

I’m going to have to disagree with this 100%. If you want to see examples of buff people working spandex you can take a look a professional wrestling, which has the bonus of some costumes that are almost literally comic book superhero costumes. The key thing you will notice is that full body spandex always looks silly, even when they’re fit enough to make it attractive. Modern wrestling also has both men and women wearing less than older wrestling costumes because they’ve realized that being half-naked is more imposing than wearing spandex. Updating costumes to real world clothing or armor, or even the Superman/Spiderman textured leathery outfit, is fine by me because it removes a barrier from taking these people seriously.

Or as I read someone else say about Captain America:

BATROC THE LEAPER WAS IN A MOVIE. And he was dressed in purple and yellow. And he did a lot of foot-first leap-kicking. And it was zero percent ridiculous.

If you want to have a superhero movie that’s remotely grounded in the real world, you have to explain why an actual person would be willing to wear the costume. If it’s clearly ridiculous-looking then that is a big problem.

People who are larger than life wear larger than life clothes: honor guards, professional athletes, rock stars, showgirls, actors, etc. etc.

Superheroes are at least as far beyond the ordinary as Lady Gaga. Why should they wear office drone clothes?

On the costume front, I have to say that although the Scarlet Witch was one of my faves growing up, there’s not a single one of her costumes that I like. AT ALL. The latest one doesn’t fill me with rage, so there’s that. I can’t say I’m in love with the MCU look either (but then I’m now older than the SW, so it’s a bit jarring to see an Olsen girl play her).

Obviously it doesn’t have to be office drone clothes.

Some of your examples are uniforms-- meaning that someone else has told them they have to dress like that. You can use this as justification in a superhero movie (Captain America, X-Men) but if the costume looks ridiculous, you still need a very good reason why that particular uniform exists.

I like the Lady Gaga example. Gaga dresses the way she does because she thinks it’s cool. That’s a good enough justification, as long as you can sell it. Classic costume designs are often more flamboyant than the character’s personality can justify.

But hang on a sec, there’s two possible senses of “looks ridiculous” that could be at play here. Aesthetically and practically. Aesthetically, well that’s all in the eye of the beholder and the lap of the gods (public preference), but practically, that’s always fixable with enough effort and attention to detail.

For example, for traditional spandex to look good, you’d need to pay extra attention to camera angles, positioning, colour, lighting, even film stock, etc., etc., etc. There are certain positions the human body can take that look awesome, and certain positions that look awful; and also depending on what’s worn.

Alex Ross is a good guide here. He actually does his artwork based on using living models some of the time. Now of course he idealizes and stylizes what he sees: but the camera can also idealize and stylize. It’s quite possible that live action traditional costumes could look as awesome as Ross’ artwork, wrinkly spandex and all. It’s just that with most modern superhero movies they haven’t bothered - they’ve given the costume department make-work when perfectly iconic cozzies have already been created, and they’ve let cinematographers take the easy way out (hey, let’s make everything dark and blue-gray, so we don’t have to worry about colour balancing a bright superhero cozzie against everyday world stuff).

The element of “realism” in superheroes is always “wow, what would it be like if these characters actually existed?” In order for that hypothetical to be realized on film, it’s not necessary that the signifiers “grim, dark and kevlar” come along with it. It’s not a package deal.

Again, I call to witness Spidey’s costume, which is the one costume they’ve always gotten right, because they have to, because it’s so iconic. Archetypally superheroic, archetypally spandex, archetypally wrinkly. Yet looks awesome.

Why? Because what’s being portrayed is not some street performer doing some half-assed acrobatics - it’s actually a superhuman, who can do things even the fittest person couldn’t possibly do.

The very same wrinkly, spandexy thing looks goofy on someone goofing around, but awesome on a character in a film who’s caefully filmed and CGI-ed to portray the superhuman quality.

First of all, cozzie is an actual word that means “swimsuit”. Second you’re using “grim, dark, and kevlar” as a prejorative strawman for “not ridiculous spandex”. If you watch the Captain America movies his costume isn’t grim and dark, it’s recognizably close to the comic book red, white, and blue flag costume with the main change being that it’s made of material a soldier might wear because spandex would look incredibly stupid on a soldier.

If you seperate looking ridiculous into aesthetics and practicality, well Spiderman looks a little silly but he’s a silly guy and when you’re doing nonstop acrobatics through the sky you at least have a reason to be wearing spandex. Also he’s CGI like 90% of the time. Superman can get away with wearing whatever because he’s invincible. Pretty much everyone else has their costume redone as some sort of body armor because not wearing armor into combat is stupid as hell if you aren’t invincible and everyone looks ridiculous walking around in spandex. Trying to come up with good reasons for everyone to wear spandex in real life strains credibility even more than saying “This guy can do magic!” Buying into the premise that superheroes exist is one thing, but trying to sell people on the idea that anyone would voluntarily wear nothing but yellow spandex and a domino mask that extends off a foot to either side of their head while being shot at is something entirely different.

What would you think if someone said: “WHY AREN’T THEY WEARING A MILLION POUCHES LIKE THEY DO IN THE COMICS? ALSO LIKE FIVE SWORDS APIECE. ROB LIEFELD IS THE MOST SUCCESSFUL COMIC ARTIST EVER!”

“Swimming costume” actually, because “cozzie” is short for “costume” in general in parts of the UK, but the usage is not unknown elsewhere.

Second you’re using “grim, dark, and kevlar” as a prejorative strawman for “not ridiculous spandex”.

No, I’m using it to refer to the tendency to replace perfectly good iconic superhero costumes with some stupid shit the costume department comes up with that they think looks “practical” and “realistic”, but actually looks dull as dishwater, and not really much different from an ordinary human soldier or some such. I’m also backhandedly referring to the tiresome black/dark blue look of things in a lot of these films (the X-Men films for example), as well as a particular sense of “realism” (not “grim, dark”, but “grimdark”, a term used in discussion about comics to refer to a certain period of comics evolution and development).

If you watch the Captain America movies his costume isn’t grim and dark, it’s recognizably close to the comic book red, white, and blue flag costume with the main change being that it’s made of material a soldier might wear because spandex would look incredibly stupid on a soldier.

Oh don’t be absurd, “spandex” is just a trope. Nobody knows what the fuck superhero costumes were supposed to be made of most of the time, but when explained it wasn’t “spandex”, it was “unstable molecules” or Kryptonian material, or special hi-tech friction-resistant material or whatever. Essentially, all superhero costumes were, was an excuse for artists to indulge in drawing human bodies as if they didn’t have clothes, but they had clothes. But again, that’s part of the point - it’s an ideal that hearkened back to the ancient Greeks, of the “body beautiful”. Fit human bodies, both male and female, are, or can be, beautiful, in a certain light, don’t you know? And part of that body poetry is what’s missing from the modern superhero movie - again, a failure of courage, or perhaps just not giving it enough thought.

Marvel are a bit hit and miss, and they haven’t been the worst offenders, at least they’ve been trying to retain some colour, though there’s still the error of trying to make the materials thick and tough as if the point of the costumes was protection. The X-Men films have been the worst offenders. Batman, he’s sort of middle-ground, you can accept that his outfit has to be armored in some sense, because “plot armor” can only go so far in a movie context.

Buying into the premise that superheroes exist is one thing, but trying to sell people on the idea that anyone would voluntarily wear nothing but yellow spandex and a domino mask that extends off a foot to either side of their head while being shot at is something entirely different.

Why wouldn’t they, if they had superpowers?

I sense you aren’t fully absorbing the concept of having superpowers here.

Soldiers, police, etc., have to wear body armour because they’re ordinary human beings who face guns and the like, and they don’t have superpowers. But people who actually had the kinds of superpowers portrayed in comics, or were aliens, or demigods, etc., etc - why the fuck would the need for protection figure into their rationale for what they wear? That’s the whole point: they don’t need special clothing to protect them, their superpowers are what protects them, they wear special clothing to give themselves a signature look - to be bright, shiny, unique, one-of-a-kind, like gods.

What would you think if someone said: “WHY AREN’T THEY WEARING A MILLION POUCHES LIKE THEY DO IN THE COMICS? ALSO LIKE FIVE SWORDS APIECE. ROB LIEFELD IS THE MOST SUCCESSFUL COMIC ARTIST EVER!”

I’d think they were an idiot, because he was an absolutely terrible artist whose popularity was a godawful aberration. You’re not going to get much traction for your argument by putting classic, iconic designs by great artists on a level with Liefeld’s rubbish.

I pretty much thought they wore spandex so that artists could just draw straight up anatomy and not have to worry about complicated folds in cloth. Shortcuts, in other words, to speed up the drawing process. I didn’t think it had anything to do with idealizing the human body, just efficiency.

Well fair enough, maybe it’s a common use where you live.

I think it’s kind of ironic that you’re calling any other costumes “stupid shit” while advocating everyone wear spandex. I’d also argue that the only grimdark comics movies we’ve gotten are the Nolan Batman movies, but Batman is a kind of grimdark broody guy. The blue/black look, well, I dunno, it’s not something that’s bothered me.

Then what are you even arguing for?

Also, this is a very good point.

Now you’re just playing dumb. I literally just explained that. Most superheroes aren’t actually bulletproof the way Superman is, they just have plot armor so thick that they are resurrected after they die because comics. Wolverine for example is one of the most unkillably durable heroes around, but being filled full of lead would theoretically kill him or put him down an indefinite amount of time depending on the time frame of the character writing. Really though, why on earth would an immortal berserker and sometimes assassin run around in yellow spandex with his underwear on the outside all the time?

I agree, but think that translating to reality they’re about on par with most classic spandex costumes. He also sort of accidentally created one or two classic iconic character designs like Deadpool and Cable.

Things that work in one medium don’t always translate well to another. Books are full of characters’ internal narration, but most of the time movies don’t keep an ongoing voiceover that would be faithful to the book because it just doesn’t work very well. Comic book costumes are in that same kind of category. The Kick-Ass movies have people running around in colorful spandex trying to be superheroes, but part of the conceit there is how silly it really is and how people get killed doing that.

This is simply the reason why many superhero costumes get changed from the form-fitting classic spandex to something that looks more practical. Leather, Kevlar, armored plates, and pockets are things that people would wear into combat. Spandex isn’t. There’s a always going to be a practical reason to wear something other than spandex. Even if some hero has the power of flight and is bullet-proof, he or she could probably use a phone every now and then.

Let’s not forget that superhero costumes got their colorful look because the books were using the cheapest primary colored inks for their presses.

Even Superman’s costume needed to have a Kryptonian retcon years ago. His “S” got turned into a Kryptonian family crest or whatever because the audience (comic readers as well as show and movie watchers) started to wonder why anyone would wear a bright skintight outfit with a giant “S” on it.

Spider-Man is sort of an exception. He can get away with spandex because he’s essentially a kid. He enjoys flitting about in costume. Still, he has a practical reason for eschewing armor even though he’s not bullet-proof. Presumably he recognizes that his acrobatics is a large part of his fighting style and armor would hinder his movement more than offer protection. (The origin of the Spidey suit as a wrestling outfit is a pretty good hand-wave as well.)

Classic designs and bright colours, form-fitting costumes on fit bodies, with the filming process worked to make it look good, using careful positioning, lighting, colour balance, cinematography and CGI.

Now you’re just playing dumb. I literally just explained that. Most superheroes aren’t actually bulletproof the way Superman is, they just have plot armor so thick that they are resurrected after they die because comics. Wolverine for example is one of the most unkillably durable heroes around, but being filled full of lead would theoretically kill him or put him down an indefinite amount of time depending on the time frame of the character writing. Really though, why on earth would an immortal berserker and sometimes assassin run around in yellow spandex with his underwear on the outside all the time?

Obviously “being invulnerable” isn’t the only superpowered way to avoid getting punctured by bullets.

They wouldn’t wear spandex™, and they probably wouldn’t wear their underwear on the outside, but they might wear something bright and colourful and form fitting because it looks cool and they want to stand out, they want to make a statement, they want to attract attention, and they don’t need to worry about getting their protection from their clothing because they have other ways of dealing with bullets than putting some thick kevlar in their way.

Like, you know, superpowers.

Other than invulnerability. (And if it comes to SW, what the fuck does she need kevlar for if she can manipulate probability?)

And obviously plot armor in the comics - but why not plot armor in movies too? No movies are ever fully “realistic” to the nth degree, everything is manipulated to some extent to tell a story.

This week’s Entertainment Weekly feature:

For better or worse (trust us, it’s worse), his Tony Stark has devised a plan that won’t require him to put on the Iron Man suit anymore, and should allow Captain America, Thor, Black Widow, Hawkeye, and the Hulk to get some much needed R&R as well. His solution is Ultron, self-aware, self-teaching, artificial intelligence designed to help assess threats, and direct Stark’s Iron Legion of drones to battle evildoers instead.
The only problem? Ultron (played by James Spader through performance-capture technology) lacks the human touch, and his superior intellect quickly determines that life on Earth would go a lot smoother if he just got rid of Public Enemy No. 1: Human beings. “Ultron sees the big picture and he goes, ‘Okay, we need radical change, which will be violent and appalling, in order to make everything better’; he’s not just going ‘Muhaha, soon I’ll rule!’” Whedon says, rubbing his hands together.
“He’s on a mission,” the filmmaker adds, and smiles thinly. “He wants to save us.”
The hard part about battling Ultron, as the cover image suggests, is that he’s not just a robot—he’s a program, capable of uploading himself and disappearing not into the clouds but the Cloud. And he has a bad habit of rebuilding himself into stronger and more fearsome physical forms.

(played by James Spader through performance-capture technology)

That takes care of the “Spader looks like a potato” objection.

While I am, of course, excited for AoU, the photos from AoU mostly just made me want to watch Winter Soldier again ASAP.

Me too. Winter Soldier is a surprisingly topical movie, a topical superhero movie of all movies genres. So SHIELD is really choke full of HYDRA? So the good guys that we think they are, really aren’t that good?

OMG OMG. Poster glimpse of Vision in “promo artwork at an international products expo”. Source being CBM, take with pinch of salt, I guess, but damn it looks good :)

Trailer leak!

Get it while you can!

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0By4e12DxrjXQZ3FUaE0yVFlTSlU/view?pli=1

So yeah. Lot of stuff happening :) It’s almost creepy how the match the song to Ultron’s lines.

— Alan

Menacing vibe: nailed. Anticipation: mounting.