Brexit, aka, the UK Becomes a Clown Car of the Highest Order

[Aceris]

a) The speaker is supposed to be partisan for the House, in that sense. He’s not supposed to be evenhanded with the government. He should follow the House’s rules, certainly, but he’s not neutral in that sense.

b) How is it against the will of the House? They voted in favour of the business motion.

On b), the house is not to be given a chance to vote on a similar business motion with wording enabling MV3.

[Aceris]

Now we have a government that loses two votes on a subject that’s of extreme national importance, is central to its manifesto commitments, and is the one key policy of its Prime Minister. But resignation isn’t on the agenda, nor is changing any part of the PM’s agenda or goals. Just a bloody-minded attempt to force through the same deal on a third vote. It’s probably not literally unprecedented, but I can’t think of an equivalent action by a modern PM, not even Margaret Thatcher, the epitome of political bloodymindedness.

My point being, the Speaker is being forced into extraordinary rulings by a government behaving in an extraordinary way. Is a slippery slope argument appropriate here?

Once again, this is a very good argument for the speaker enabling the indicative votes process, which I actually support. It does not explain the blockage of MV3 even with a paving motion.

[Woolen_Horde]

May says she will quit if her deal is passed.

Hahahahahaha.

[Aceris]

May says she will quit if her deal is passed.

Hahahahahaha.

I note she waited until after that looked extremely unlikely to say that.

[Rod_Humble]

She is now saying she will resign if Parliament agrees to the deal they have rejected twice.

She is just terrible. What purpose does that serve? She seems to believe if her early deal gets agreed Brexit will be in the rear view mirror and we can all move on united.

That’s delusional in the extreme.

[Ginger_Yellow]

On b), the house is not to be given a chance to vote on a similar business motion with wording enabling MV3.

I mean, the will of the House is very clearly against (the motion contained in) MV3. His actions in blocking the vote may be improper, but I don’t see how they’re against the will of the House.

[Mark_Weston]

That’s delusional in the extreme.

Maybe not. I’ve been reading suggestions that it makes a difference to some ERG-types; the idea being that they hold their noses and vote for May’s deal, and in return they get one of their own in charge of negotiating the details of the post-Brexit relationship.

Doesn’t sound great for the rest of us.

[Rod_Humble]

That’s delusional in the extreme.

Maybe not. I’ve been reading suggestions that it makes a difference to some ERG-types; the idea being that they hold their noses and vote for May’s deal, and in return they get one of their own in charge of negotiating the details of the post-Brexit relationship.

Doesn’t sound great for the rest of us.

Oh it might get it passed but it will make Brexit rancor last much longer imho.

[Timex]

I can’t follow all this crazy crap, so bear with me.

Is May offering her resignation as an enticement to get folks to vote for her plan? Does she want them to support it? Or does she want them to not support it?

[Mark_Weston]

Is May offering her resignation as an enticement to get folks to vote for her plan?

Yes.

grrrrrrr

[Rod_Humble]

She wants them to approve her deal. Then she is enticing them that once she is gone someone competent can lead the next phase of negotiations with the EU

Its hardly a compelling case “Let me drive the bus over the cliff then when we are over the cliff someone else can drive.”

[Timex]

“Let me have this one and I’ll go away” seems like a really bad negotiation position.

I mean, and again I’m not following the details here, it makes more sense for them to say, “Nah, fuck you.” and she’ll probably leave anyway.

[Rod_Humble]

Crazy to me that its Donald Tusk is now representing the interests of the Remain majority/minority more than May or Corbyn. Astonishing really.

In a stirring intervention, the European council president has praised those who marched on the streets of London and the millions who are petitioning the government to revoke article 50.

Speaking to the European parliament, Tusk reprimanded those who voiced concerns about a potential lengthy extension to article 50 in the event of the Commons rejecting the withdrawal agreement again this week.

Tusk said: “Let me make one personal remark to the members of this parliament. Before the European council, I said that we should be open to a long extension if the UK wishes to rethink its Brexit strategy, which would of course mean the UK’s participation in the European parliament elections. And then there were voices saying that this would be harmful or inconvenient to some of you.

“Let me be clear: such thinking is unacceptable. You cannot betray the 6 million people who signed the petition to revoke article 50, the 1 million people who marched for a people’s vote, or the increasing majority of people who want to remain in the European Union.”

[Ginger_Yellow]

I mean, and again I’m not following the details here, it makes more sense for them to say, “Nah, fuck you.” and she’ll probably leave anyway.

She will, but by that point Article 50 may have been revoked. Or a long extension agreed, which the ERGers seem unreasonably afraid of. They really don’t seem very capable of playing a long game.

[Dan_Theman]

They really don’t seem very capable of playing a long game.

I suspect a lot of it has to do with re-election concerns; this will probably hang like an albatross around their necks and provide easy fodder for opponents.

[Ginger_Yellow]

Unless they themselves bring down the government, they’re not facing re-election until long after an extension will be over. And, besides, the vast majority of them are in extremely safe seats.

[Rod_Humble]

To be fair to Leave MP’s many of them are in seats which are still very Leave so they can fairly say they are representing the will of their voters.

Maidenhead (May’s constituency) when Leave with 55% for example even though she campaigned against it.

Islington North (Corbyn’s) went remain with 78%, which rather puts his pro Brexit views against his own voters.

[Pyperkub]

Back only a hundred years, people were ecstatic to live to 60.

Papageno already addressed this, but just for perspective:

George Washington died at 67.
Thomas Jefferson died at 83.
James Madison died at 83.
Benjamin Franklin died at 84.
John Adams died at 91.

Basically, if you could survive into adulthood then your odds of living to 60+ were almost as good a few hundred years ago as they are today.

You forgot being very well off as a factor.

[Timex]

Britain: We’re going to do this really dumb thing! <leaves EU>
US: Hold my beer. <elects Donald Trump>
UK: I’m gonna need you to take your beer back. Hold mind too. <does crazy stuff>

[Aceris]

Or a long extension agreed, which the ERGers seem unreasonably afraid of. They really don’t seem very capable of playing a long game.

On the contrary, they have played a long game, and had thought they had won, because they never worried to much about pesky details.

With every month that passes their position is weaker. I don’t see how they turn that around within destroying the Tory party. It’s now or never for them.