Is it not possible to be welcoming of diversity along some dimensions but seek to enforce uniformity along other dimensions? I think in any community there might be a sort of conservation principle at work. People need an outgroup to bash.
Some do, some don’t. I haven’t seen much of that here since well, those specific people were shown the door. They created a place better suited to them, that’s all.
Absolutely. Bashing an outgroup is understandable. Bashing people who agree with you and are sympathetic to your cause simply because they express themselves slightly differently and you feel they need to be schooled…that’s a recipe for isolation.
Yeah, I guess the conservation idea isn’t too useful. Everyone wants to bash the outgroup, but how far away you have to be on some dimension to be “out” varies a lot. I definitely prefer a more traditional liberal discourse where a lot of things can be discussed without being cast out.
People want different things online.
Personally, I want places to play, things to do, knowledgeable folks to give me valuable info about games or maybe fixing my computer now and then. And I want these things for exactly as long as I want them and no longer. I happen to be escapist and whimsical, and I’d never stick with a place that got too serious.
Lots of other people want an “online community.” Perhaps a place to be Serious About Video Games, perhaps something else — I used to enjoy reading Qt3 to catalogue different types and motivations to myself, just out of curiosity. Some just wanted reliable chat friends with in-jokes. Some wanted to claim certain identities (the guy on Qt3 who knows all about XYZ, the alpha guy on Qt3, the girl on Qt3, Qt3’s #1 fan of whatever, whatever Koontz thought he was). You see more or less the same stuff everywhere online.
What I think happened with the Qt3/BF split was two things:
- A general move toward progressive puritanism, reflecting that in universities and the middle class at least since the late 80s (when I first encountered it)
- A critical mass of people who really really depended on Qt3 to socialize and communicate.
Thing 1 touched off some controversy, thing 2 united the diehards behind the other diehards, and KABOOM!
Don’t blame me; I was making dick jokes through the whole thing. But months later I did get messages from two guys saying, Hey, come join BF, we want you there! Which was really nice of those guys, so I went over once and looked.
And JESUS H CHRIST ON A HOBO HUMPING POGO STICK it was like they’d all joined a cult. People whose posts I’d read for years — mostly not very interesting, maybe, but not frightening in any way — were now all Grand Inquisitors trying to out-purify each other about all the fashionable issues of the day. And they’d all pile on people, and they’d actually have threads about how they were the best online community of all, and they’d all “like” all the posts in that thread. And this wasn’t done in happiness, but in resentment, bitterness, whining reproach.
What a drag. I think there’s enough piling on and resentment out here in meatspace, don’t you?
^^^ /like
I like using this GIF, I just can’t figure out which forum would be which.
I just want to be crystal clear that “those guys were assholes” is not necessarily untrue, but not at all the complete story, either.
Because yeah, all you gotta do is get rid of those assholes, right? Then everything is fixed, forever. Because it’s them, they’re the assholes. Never you. Never us.
That does kind of cut down to the heart of the matter I think. We have differing philosophies about what we want out of a discussion forum, maybe it’s as simple as that.
Sure! And that changes over time, too. Maybe I’ll log into Qt3 from the nursing home wanting an online community and a safe space.
IMO That list on the front page is a little voyeuristic. But I enjoyed my brief browse.
And clicking on page numbers is terrible. However did we manage…
Can we say THIS here. Because THIS. JMJ your post hit the spot. Excellent.
Speaking of which. I miss a certain BD.
Edit: There are no safe spaces. There are only spaces that you feel comfortable in. And that can change in an instant. A safe space is a fallacy. Just a safe appearing space. Until it changes.
That is not really what is being discussed. The “safe spaces are for pussies” argument isn’t what this is about. I know when Loyd Case left qt3, for example, it was based on something @Mark_Asher said in an earlier post that he perceived as extremely sexist and it was not being challenged by anyone. (You can look up his profile if you are curious, it was his last post so easy to find, lol it is in this very topic!)
So for example if I said:
man I hate getting grouped with women in PUBG they suck at first person shooters
And that went by unopposed, nobody remarked on it, that is not advocating for a safe space, it is supporting a place that implicitly approves of sexism.
I am sure you can extrapolate those statements to whatever prejudice you dislike the most.
Woo hoo I’m on top of the 2nd page of banned people.
They are there. You are here. Leave it alone.
It seems that some are acting the very same way they are accusing the other forum of acting.
I mean, shit. Where else on the internet you gonna get a Whale reference in 2017?
I actually looked at that site for the first time in 4 years. A list on the front page?! WOW…
If I may be permitted to necro this thread just to vent for a minute:
I recently got banned from BF. I wasn’t participating in very many threads, generally because of the pile-on that would invariably happen. I expressed divisive opinions on hot-button topics like:
Is Nintendo Doomed? (my opinion: no);
Is Google Sheets a good-enough replacement for Excel for most people (my opinion: yes);
and the thread which got me suspended and eventually banned:
Did you like or dislike The Last Jedi? (my opinion: dislike).
After the piling on in the Last Jedi thread, I was banned for two weeks. After the ban ended, I messaged Lum and asked:
- What rules did I specifically violate to deserve a ban?
- What can I do in the future to avoid this?
- Who else was banned at the same time?
The response I got was (paraphrasing): “I have zero interest in pointing out the many ways in which you aggravated people on that thread.” And when I asked again about what rules I violated, I was permanently banned. So, I was banned for asking why I was banned.
Look, I know I can be argumentative. I’m just amazed that no one notices the piling on over there, and everyone seems to be okay with it.
Thanks for letting me vent!
The Other Board [tm] has a very specific groupthink.
Not embracing that groupthink in any way is bounds for a petty, vindictive ban.
That being said, TOB [tm] is a safe space for a bunch of folks who pretty much feel threatened everywhere else, so some overreaction should be expected.
Wait, they think Nintendo is d0med at TOB [tm]? Really? In 2018, after many unsuccessful doomings, this is still a thing?