Glad you got to play and share it, @NI1! I will say I think it’s weaker as an arena battling game than it is as an asymmetrical fight against one of the Corrupted. I just don’t think the characters are tuned to PvP each other without the special rules in some of the scenarios. But now that you guys know the basic system, play one of the funkier scenarios!
And, yeah, that world shift can really do a number on you, can’t it?
-Tom
Yep, we’ve already decided to try a scenario next week. The game felt a bit slow with 4 people, hopefully it will be faster now that we’re more familiar with the rules.
Been thinking about getting this. What do you think so far?
The last week I’ve bene playing loads of mage Knight and I think one game of Spirit Island, but last night I finally set the game up, picked Persephone (fear lady) and my partner picked Fire Lady.
We just read through the rules and then settled into the sofa to watch some stuff (it’s been a long week, my coding course is melting my brain) but one thing confused me, during the monster attack turn it seems I can’t inflict damage, and then I realised I inflict damage to the monsters during the adventure phase.
So, immediately, the game promises to be much more focussed and interesting than Mage Knight in that regard, and reward planning ahead a bit more, because you know exactly what actions you have and what the enemy can do, whereas MK is a bit more random.
I do like exploring stuff in MK and flipping over enemy tokens, and then figuring out a way to beat the enemy, like when I realised I had just the right combination of mana crystals and level up tokens and units to instantly kill a Red Dragon :).
It’s funny you ask about this because we are heading to the living room now to actually play a game.
Post your thoughts please when you’re done. Thanks.
OK, game finished.
In the words of my partner:
I really like this game, it is elegant.
And it is, it really is.
The board very quickly fills up with monsters and events, but the world shift changes the geography around so things never get stale or really predictable, and for me at least, the monster difficulty was just the right difficulty, i.e. requiring a bit of thought to overcome but not too much.
And by limiting the amount you can play in a turn (typically 3 cards, but sometimes more with certain abilities or cards) it forces some good, fun, brain crunching.
I played Persephone, who gains fear whenever she takes damage. Unfortunately I didn’t realise that was how she gained fear until day 4 (of 6) so I missed out on a tonne of juicy fear.
Fear amplifies some of your abilities, or can be spent to gain certain effects. It’s pretty cool.
And every character gets its own gimmick.
Next game I will play Leaf, or Mushroom Head as I call him, who generates and uses “momentum.”
I also like how monsters and events ar egenrated, i.e. at the start of each dawn period, genrate a card from each world.
At the start of each dusk period, generate 3 dusk cards.
And the end of each day (dawn and dusk period) activate one world card, which usually shifts the worlds around, so the dojo starts in the centre but ends up in various locations, which is fun.
Now, the not so good points:
Table space. This takes up a tonne of space, and managing your cards can get a bit fiddly because all cards start in your hand, and when you play a card, that card then goes on the table in front of you, and is now “on the board” which means when you play it next time, you use the lower ability of that card. And then it comes back to your hand.
So you can end up with a few cards in your hand, an a few on your deck, and forget you had cards on the deck as they are all in a row, which happened to my partner, which we realised when I saw a random card there and was wondering what it was.
Lastly, I haven’t played through them yet, but the scenarios look a bit anaemic. There are 3 per character, but divided into 2+, 3+ a solo player only, so, although again - I haven’t played this part yet - it does look a bit like this area needs fleshing out.
Also, there should be a handy turns reminder/aide-memoire, like the little cards you get in Spirit Island, to remind you that you must:
Day 1-
Day 2 - as above
Day 3, as above, except players gain their ultimate card at the start of the dusk phase.
These are pretty minor downsides, and after having come from the turgid and solemn solidity of Tainted Grail, and the slow brain burner of Spirit Island, via some frivolous minutes in Exploding Kittens and Go Sushi, this is a wonderful game to add to the collection.
And the rules mostly make sense.
There’s one posted on BGG: Champions of Hara Player Reference & Turn Order Guide | Champions of Hara
Persephone is definitely a grower and not a shower. You have to accumulate some damage on her to get those boosted card powers. I was playing yesterday and she managed to kill John Dee and Edward Kelly – that’s actually one monster – which lets you set your character resource to whatever value you like. So – boom! – she’s at Fear 9 on Day 2 without having taken hardly any damage. She was a real terror at that point.
It always shifts the world around! There are twelve World Shift cards, two for each world, so you’re always going to swap one with the Dojo. The real uncertainty in the World Shifts is how it’s going to help the trailing player.
I find that it helps to just keep the cards face-up on the table in two rows. The top row represents on-board, the bottom row reprsents in-hand. Then turn them clockwise 90-degrees as you plan and play out our your turn. Once three are turned, you’re done! Turn them 90-degrees clockwise again, make sure they’re in their proper rows, and you’re good to go.
I might agree with this if they weren’t pretty much infinitely replayable. Many of the scenarios are open-ended structures for you to bring in which characters and afflicted you want. Basically, Mage Knight doesn’t feel anemic for having “only three scenarios” because the variability isn’t in the scenario structures as much as it’s inherent in the components. Mage Knight is the same way.
And I cannot stress enough that you should ignore the goofy unlocking stuff. Each character’s passive adds sooo much, well, character. I’d recommend using them immediately. And getting to choose between two ultimatums makes them feel much more meaningful, and gives you a really cool interesting decision to make when you hit those ultimatum thresholds.
Here’s the one I made, which you’re welcome to edit as you like. I also write out on a Post-It note the scenario effects die results and stick it on the player aid so I don’t have to keep referring to the scenario description in the rules.
-Tom
Yeah, these aren’t scripted story scenarios where you’ll play them once and never again. They’re some tweaks on the game format.
We played it once more, I was mushroom Head, and the 2nd playthrough was even more fun, because we had a decent handle on what we were doing.
She stayed as Soff, and would have won but she chose not to kill me once, and then I won next turn by closing a minor red rift to get to ten red energy and then racing to the dojo.
One thing I think could have been done was using the energy accumulated for stuff, so you have this tension between winning by accumulating your energy, and spending it to do cool stuff, like not dying.
As it is, you just accumulate the energy and…then win.
also, what happens if your spirit goes to zero? No penalty other than not being able to do events right?
Well, you can still do events, but it’s just down to the die roll. Spirit is just used to mitigate the randomness in events and rifts. It sometimes figures into other elements, but they’re scenario or Corrupted dependent. For instance, Ophion drains spirit as he damages you, and he’s particularly dangerous if you’re caught with no spirit.
-Tom
Cool, as I thought. I was worried I had mis-read the rules.
I am hoping to play today, this time as Thomas, or engineer boy as I am calling him.
Also, every month I am expanding my game collection, so January was Hara (but also exploding kittens and Evolution, presents from my partner, which count for February) so in March I am deliberating between:
Any thoughts on this last item?
Cloudspire is fascinating, but it can get pretty esoteric. Even downright obtuse. It’s not as accessible as Too Many Bones. It takes a ton of AI management and intricate rules parsing, especially if you’re interested in playing it solitaire. But the payoff is some pretty intense tower defense/RTS interaction between asymmetric factions.
-Tom
IN terms of complexity and moving parts, how does it compare to Spirit Island?
Ya gotta go with this one, bro. It’s like nothing else.
Oh, not even close. Spirit Island is a masterpiece. I mean, they’re very different designs and intended for very different experiences. Spirit Island is built from the ground up for asymmetrical faction pushing back against an AI system (PvE). Cloudspire is built primarily as asymmetrical factions pushing against each other (PvP). But the asymmetry in Spirit Island is some of the best you’ll ever see in a game design on any platform. In terms of complexity, it’s got all the elegance that Cloudspire is missing.
EDIT: Oops, I see you’re just asking about complexity and moving parts. Cloudspire has waaaaay more complexity and moving parts than Spirit Island. Spirit Island is as friendly as you want it to be, but Cloudspire is NOT for anyone but hardcore boardgamers.
-Tom
I was getting a bit of that vibe from the website itself, but I like that sort of thing.
I think I will put it to the back of the queue then.
So that leaves Clockwork wars or Too Many Bones.
CW is cheaper, but 2nd hand.
TMB looks luxurious though.
I’m so glad I read Tom’s posts about this game, because I bought it and I love it! My (adult) son and I played all all afternoon, and we were completely engrossed. The two-sided cards work very well, and it was surprisingly fun to seed the board with strange monsters and events. I didn’t expect to like the art as much as I do, either.
One question: if a player transports a character right onto the hex containing an Aggressive monster, does the monster attack the character? I think the answer is yes. I know transport isn’t “movement,” but the rule says you get attacked if you “enter” the monster’s hex in your turn. My son, who was doing the transporting, wasn’t so sure!
Anyway, thanks again for the recommendation. Now that we’ve played a versus scenario (won by my son), we’re looking forward to the follow-on co-op scenario, which he gets to choose.
The only case you could make that Transport protects you from Aggressive is pretty strained. I’d say you have to deliberately misinterpret the wording. But it is one of those things where a better written rule would mean you never even had to ask.
I would recommend asking on BGG, but it seems like the designer, Walter Barber, stopped answering rules questions a while ago. I sent him a message on BGG yesterday asking if he might swing by and clear up a few lingering questions.
-Tom
