Yes, they were all wrong. He was not laughed out of court, he didn’t learn an expensive lesson about slapp, and although we’re not sure if this is gonna explode in his face, it seems that’s not the case.
I never saw a source on this? Care to share?
It wasn’t out on the internet. It only got to the internet because of Barrows’s false allegations. Otherwise it was private conversation between two adults.
I guess now that it’s on the internet he should probably just kill himself and get it over with, after all he doesn’t deserve to work anymore or even get out of bed.
He doesn’t need to work anymore, he just got at least one meelleeon dollars!
I don’t think anyone here said or implied any of that.
No, but he should face the fact that women have a good reason not to want to work alongside him and that that might drastically curtail his opportunities (in a fair world). Treating that kind of behavior as no big deal, or as washed away by an apology in the moment the guy gets called out, is a huge reason that women don’t feel comfortable in the games industry. Not that one case, but the long history of tolerance for behavior like it. If we’re going to reverse that, we need to make visible moves against it.
I should say, I don’t think there’s no way Avellone could repair his reputation. But it would involve public statements reflecting on the damage done by that incident and any others, making a commitment to improving the treatment of vulnerable members of the industry, and having an agreement with future employers that his behavior will be scrutinized. At least, that’s what would seem to make a difference to me, but I would really ask women in the industry to decide what it takes for them to feel confident that he has a different attitude. It’s a big burden on him, but who else should the burden be on?
Most of us lawyers were laughing at those twitter lawyers.
Eric Kain at Forbes for one.
Anyone who has ever made a crass, unwanted sexual solicitation to someone after some low grade flirting (in his mind, at least) should become homeless and indigent? That’s a tad harsh.
Lots of people make terrible passes at people in bars, etc., and aren’t prevented from working forever - that’s insane. The humiliation and embarrassment (forever public now) and immediate short-term professional consequences, already seem to have imposed a very substantial cost on that particular creepy conduct.
I was being a bit facetious. But even looking at it more seriously, what else is the end result of one drunk text being “careed ending move” and “not being able to get out of bed in the morning” ?
I dunno. As I said, while there is no excuse for that text, I accept that people are not perfect angelic beings, they can make mistakes, and they shouldn’t be ostracized forever for them if they regret them and apologize for them. Which was the case here.
Even if they didn’t apologize or regret it, it’s still an absurd punishment for literally typing a sentence. But it’s just another example of a cancel-culture that’s lost connection to reality.
I agree that today people seem so bent on “justice” (emphasis on the quote marks) that they forget redemption, and that’s a grave problem that has been sending titanic waves through our societal fabric for a while now. I for once wouldn’t judge Chris Avellone by his past mistakes if I have evidence that he acknowledges those mistakes as such, and won’t repeat them (or that he at least will make an honest effort not to), but I think that’s the real question here. Will he?
Speaking for myself, I think he’s talented and I think he deserves a chance (I think most people do). I think that at least to some extent he was wronged, and I hope it becomes clear to everyone to what level that happened (though, alas, we may never truly know). But I also think that if people think he’s a liability, and they have reasonable motives to think so, that they might choose not to work with him. It’s complicated, really. I think most of this was blown out of proportion. But I also think other parts of it were not, and it varies from person to person (as different people have different values), and we don’t really know how much this whole thing has changed him to the better or to the worst. It remains to be seen, and for that very reason I wish people would give him a chance, if only to know what kind of person he has become after all this.
His SLAPP lawsuit filed in CA was indeed dismissed, though for a technical reason. It became an issue of jurisdiction since Ms Barrows was from Illinois and successfully appealed for the case to be dismissed. In fact he was ordered to pay the defendant’s lawyer fees too.
He then filed in Illinois and which resulted in settlement in his favor.
So as far as CA/SLAPP ruling goes, well, it didn’t go anywhere on technicality and the case was dismissed.
As a complement, I said above that I would have trouble getting out of bed if I did what he did and it became known. But notice that says more about me than about him. I wouldn’t do such a thing, and I wish he hadn’t done it, but regardless of that, I’d like to think he won’t anymore, and I’d be ok with that.
Couple of things:
First, the bit about “getting out of bed in the morning” was me trying to put myself in his shoes, not a prescription for how I think he should feel nor what I think would be appropriate for him.
Second, I think characterizing this as “one drunk text” or “literally typing a sentence” or even “crass, unwanted sexual solicitation” vastly understate the how gross and awful this was. I will fully admit that I don’t know the details of their relationship, personal or professional, and it’s quite possible if I understood the context more I’d change my opinion.
Third–and this is on me for not explaining fully–I don’t think it should be career ending, full stop. If he were to work to repair the harm caused, then yes, absolutely, we can all move on. But the harm is more than just how that recipient felt about it. Are other women going to be nervous with him on the team? If they’re at an event where he’s there? Does someone building a team have to worry if this is going to happen again if he has a few drinks, and if so, at what point are they responsible for creating a “hostile work environment”? IMHO, he needs to show that he understands how bad this was and also how it’s a pattern of things that make work and life shitty for women in male-dominated industries. (As Desslock says, it’s more common than you’d think.) So immediately and profusely apologizing to the recipient is the first step, but not the last step.
And to be clear, this is hypothetical–maybe he’s already working on this, or was waiting for the court business to finish, or whatever. I don’t know!
It’s a drunk text. No one got hurt or killed…so I think you vastly overstate how awful it is. Engarde!
I do think people on the Internet, especially people on twitter, are too quick to call for punitive justice with no hope of redemption or even forgiveness. Get 'em! Insert disproportional response here.
Exactly, I have a someone I work with who using terms like horrific and dreadful for stuff that is anything but you know, people got people
Yeah, I guess that’s probably the core of the disagreement.
You build 7 bridges, they don’t call you the bridge builder, but you fuck one goat…
In some ways we’re all living in a small village now, with the Internet. It is what it is.
It’s not punitive at all, that’s not the point.
Knowing that a person who would ever imagine writing something like that to one of their colleagues works alongside you, and is embraced or at least tolerated by company leadership, can be–I’d say will be–a source of anxiety and discomfort for those in the company who might have to worry about it happening to them. Why should they have to live with that just so that Avellone can continue to write for video games? What did they do?
The industry has an awful history of treating women as unwelcome in its ranks. A lot of effort has been put into changing this recently, and it’s still a problem. Hiring someone like Chris Avellone is just a signal that things haven’t changed. It’s not even about what he deserves or doesn’t deserve. It’s just the peace of mind that everyone else deserves to have at work.