Yeah, I don’t know why blood is any different. Technically they could blood let people and invoke the existing fear of bleeding to death.
I actually thought Muller was being gracious as well. When Olbermann began the segment by saying, I think in an attempt to be honest about where they both stand, “Let’s stipulate at the beginning: you and I are not going to agree on about anything politically so let’s focus on what you went through…”
Mancow laughs with him on this point, then says, I thought sincerely, “Isn’t that sad you would say that though? Isn’t that sad that you would say that?”
Then he goes on to say “let’s focus on our common ground” and reveals Hannity’s ridiculous comment to him (I can’t believe we’re even letting them pretend there’s a debate about this; what’s next, a debate about whether forcing someone to have sex is really rape?). When he goes on to say, “Okay now let’s fight” I think he was doing that in a good-natured way.
I think he showed himself to be a stand up guy, to use a term that came up a couple of times in the interview. Furthermore, he actually admitted that Olbermann cares about America. But since he was waterboarded this may have been a false confession.
Good on him for going on the show.
-amanpour
“Good night Irene…game over.”
That’s his shtick, and Olbermann is the enemy for many on the right. That said I thought he wasn’t actually spoiling for a fight in a five minute segement.
We could argue over whether rape is worse than just getting punched real hard.
Maybe we could cross this with one of those “people who deserve to be raped in prison” threads.
I … just wanted to play too.
The funny thing was that the marine steadfastly held it wasn’t torture – and then later came on about how the guy water tortured would need therapy.
It’s like he somewhere deep down knows it’s bad, but has it mentally walled off so he can keep doing it without feeling guilty.
That was absolute nonsense. All torture methods are based on the fact that humans inherently fear pain and death. Whatever helps the guy sleep at night, I suppose.
Yeah, I think I was more picking up on his radio demeanor. It’s loud, which generally comes across as adversarial even if it’s unintentional. He never seems to let that down.
The thing I don’t get: If it isn’t torture, then…why are you doing it? If it really isn’t all that unpleasant, why is doing it to someone going to help you interrogate them? The whole justification for waterboarding someone is that it’s so horrible that even a hardened terrorist mastermind will confess to get you to stop. If it isn’t bad enough to be torture, then what possible excuse is there for having done it at all?
Because it’s enhanced interrogation. So you’re still interrogating people in order to obtain information, you’re just enhancing it with a teensy little bit of fake drowning. No biggie, right?
I think what they’re trying to say is that if there isn’t major tissue damage involved, it’s not torture. Like PTSD isn’t real, because you aren’t physically wounded.
H.
Thanks, I thought so. Close enough to conservative to just lump him in with that crowd in the latest newspaper article I suppose.
I think an examination of the lung and sinus tissue of a recently waterboarded person would put the lie to that rationalization attempt.
Lovely bit of writing on this subject. I read it on Andrew Sullivan’s blog at The Atlantic, The Daily Dish.
It’s an email from one of his readers. Rather than having a comments section, Andrew posts bits from a couple of pertinent reader emails each day.
-amanpour
“I prefer my Jesus neat.”
That was a pretty good write up except that this…
This entire debate about torture is nothing more–and nothing less–than the debate between fear and courage, between fear and love, between fear and strength. Watching Mancow stare into the depths–if only for a moment–we saw a man begin, perhaps, to understand that.
… reminded me of this.
What’s he prattling on about? Jesus loves waterboarding and the war on terror.
He’s basically making an argument that God is reflected in our love for another. We are made in God’s image, hence when we treat our neighbor with love, we are God like. When we don’t (such as in cases of torture), it undermines that core belief of being made in God’s image, an axiom on which Christians build their life. A lesser example of this might be learning you’re adopted as an adult or something like that. It undermines your very self and identity. Muller is an unabashed Christian, so it’s not impossible someone might read that in his reaction to the water boarding.
Modern* arguments against God is love was basically rehashed here. It’s not surprising that the letter paraphrases Tyler Durden so closely.
*Relatively modern.
I can’t find it now, but to be fair, there’s a clip where Muller talks about interviewing him previously and got a really creepy vibe from him. However, he’s exploiting the tragedy pretty much the same way every infotainment organization has.