Crusader Kings 3 - Downton Abbey for the 12th Century

[Zephyr]

I had hoped for a Vicky 3 announcement, but CK3 is good as well. It’ll be a day 1 purchase for me, even with the recent Imperator launch issues. Started a Sweden CK2 game this weekend as I loved the play style of Vikings and hope it is maintained in CK3.

[dionisus1122]

I bounced off CK2 somewhere about 6 different times over the years. I was always perplexed with that because I love Paradox and I love strategy games - my favorite genre. In fact, the whole premise of CK2 appeals deeply to me - but I could never get into it or understand it. I tried numerous tutorials and YouTube guides for beginners - but is just never clicked.

I’m really excited that they’re focusing on making it easier for newbies to get into. I recognize if you’re a long-time CK2 fan and player, that may be an area of concern for you (dumbing down the game) - but for me, I’m hoping it gives me enough to get hooked.

[Nesrie]

I am hoping it is less about dumbing down and more about highlight what makes it unique and worthwhile. I know the line can easily blurr, but… well here’s to hoping.

[Tim_N]

@dionisus1122

I bounced off CK2 somewhere about 6 different times over the years. I was always perplexed with that because I love Paradox and I love strategy games - my favorite genre. In fact, the whole premise of CK2 appeals deeply to me - but I could never get into it or understand it. I tried numerous tutorials and YouTube guides for beginners - but is just never clicked.

This is the best advice you will ever receive on this forum: go back for a seventh time.

[dionisus1122]

If I go back, what should my immediate goal be? Other games I focus on where I should expand. What is a good goal to focus on to keep my engaged while I learn my way?

[Tim_N]

@dionisus1122

If I go back, what should my immediate goal be? Other games I focus on where I should expand. What is a good goal to focus on to keep my engaged while I learn my way?

Load up an Irish count in the 1066 start. Your immediate goal is the annexation of the remainder of Ireland, and proclaiming yourself King of the island. From there, you could quit and start a new game elsewhere, or venture into the larger island next to you, or whatever you want. The best kind of CK2 games when you’re learning are ones where you are expanding. A common noobie recommendation which is a big mistake is to load up a character and just let time pass and simply react to events that pop up. Always best to have expansion goals at first.

Here’s a text step-by-step guide to achieving this and learning the game:

Crusader Kings 2 Tutorial part 1.docx

There are LP tutorial series on Youtube but I don’t have the experience to recommend any in particular.

[Bateau]

Thanks for this. Only thing I’d like to know is when the guide was written? I can’t find the info anywhere, at least not on mobile. I assume most of the strategies outlined in it should still apply to the latest version though.

[Carto]

I didn’t think CK2 needed competition from a sequel, but I’m warming up to it. The stress and genetic systems sound interesting. Given how bland knights and favors are in CK2, knights and hooks also look promising.

I don’t care for the art so far. The character models are too much of a departure from the haggard portraits and event art of CK2. (On the other hand, Mayor Ebbon does look annoying.) At first glance, the map looks like it’s from TW, not PDX. Hopefully I’ll get over that once I see the game in action.

I’d really like to see better ways of tracking characters and dynasties other than your own over time. Grooming cadet branches and vassal dynasties in CK2 took. A lot of busy work.

[dionisus1122]

Yeah, of the 6 times I’ve tried, I’ve probably tried this guide 5 of them… so I think I’m going to avoid it whenever I get a chance to boot it back up.

[Carto]

If you lose a game, you can reload your last save and select another dynasty to play. I recommend this over restarting, as you’ll still get to see mid and late game content.

Wherever you end up starting, pull up the duchy and kingdom filters and look at the local political geography. During succession, titles of the same rank are split between heirs. For example, if you’re holding two duchies and have two kids, each kid gets a duchy. Unless you also hold a higher rank title, the second kid and his title will become independent.

Inheritance drives early expansion. If you’re a count, you want to first acquire the rank of duke. Once you have that, you can conquer and grant out counties until you’re strong enough to make a go at a grand duchy or kingdom, then empire, etc.

In all likelihood, your kingdom will crumble under its own weight and your dynasty will fall. But that’s okay! Most dynasties fall. Just switch over to a new dynasty and keep going. You could play through the whole game by wrecking dynasties one after the other.

Edit: my other suggestion for CK2 or any Paradox game is to get yourself a good history book covering the same period / area and read it as you play. This can really help make sense of things and give you something to look forward to. I had a great 869-1453 playthrough pairing Border Fury with a Marches start. Even ended with a young Queen of Scots to port over to an EU4 game.

[dionisus1122]

Thanks for the tips - I will give it a go again… but I might just end up back on EU4 :)

[KevinC]

I appreciate what it does, but Crusader Kings is the only Paradox franchise I haven’t been able to get into. I’m going to give it another go when the next one comes out, though, maybe this one will work for me!

[von_Schmidt]

I have played CK2 for hundreds of hours, but cannot stop myself from just seeing it as a Kingdom builder - so I miss out on a lot of the personalities and family elements that make it unique due to my own limitations.

Although I will never forget my fat ugly lesbian Queen of Bretagne.
She literally ruled for dozens of years despite her challenges…while her better equipped heir swiftly lost the kingdom to France.

CK3 is a day1 purchase, and I’m sure I will finally have started on Stellaris and Imperator before it comes out. Honestly.

[fdsaion]

Crusader Kings 3 is Happening, And It Has Some Much-Requested Features

Some more info on cadet branches (spend prestige to get own coat of arms & family name while counting towards main branch until/unless main branch dies off), more numeric stats for province development, and the replacement for standing retinues. Also skilltrees for prestige and piety too in addition to that of focuses.

I will say I am not a fan of “levelling up” via skilltrees that’s been presented. The existing CK2 framework of random event bonuses in the focus area is much more natural.

[Carto]

When I tried it earlier this year, the CK2-EU4 converter was still working. You could pick your favorite EU4 nation in a 14th century CK2 start and see what kind of trouble you can cause. In my Scotland game, one of the Holy Roman Emperors disbanded the elector system and created an imperial autocracy. So I started an EU4 game with a unified HRE nation holding most of central Europe.

I have the opposite problem of you and @KevinC though: I keep bouncing off of EU4. For me, CK2’s gameplay isn’t about conquering a kingdom, it’s about holding it together when your idiot advisers are screwing things up and your competent advisers are screwing you. After that chaos, EU4’s nations feel a little too orderly.

[dionisus1122]

I was mulling this over last night, and I wonder how much of this is visual stimulation? I’m not super familiar with CK2 obviously, but in EU4, I know that I love watching the map be painted in my colors. I like identifying those strategic points to build a fort or gain a port to gain trade power. Too see the dissolution of the HRE, or watch the Protestants expand on the map.

I didn’t get that same visual feeling from CK2… maybe I haven’t gotten deep enough to see it, or maybe my brain is just wired up in a funny way.

Anyway, I plan on giving this another try. I have been thinking about it for a few months because I also wanted to try the Game of Thrones mod - but I want to understand the game before I do that. Also fighting through my yearly addiction to RimWorld at this precise moment :/

[Carto]

I think you’re onto something. You could probably play CK2 with a ledger instead of a map and do just fine.

And I can’t explain why, but Rimworld and Crusader Kings give me a brothers-from-another-mother vibe.

[Tim_N]

@Bateau

Thanks for this. Only thing I’d like to know is when the guide was written?

Last modified September 2018. It recommends disabling all DLCs when playing along, so the only thing to be wary of is any interface changes they’ve made. Shouldn’t be too much of a problem.

[Tim_N]

Great article that spells out some more details:

https://www.usgamer.net/articles/paradox-answers-12-major-questions-about-crusader-kings-3

In an accompanying reddit thread, there were some additional details (only really meaningful for existing CK2 players I guess):

There will be five unique graphics sets for clothes at launch: Western (European), Middle Eastern, Sub-Saharan, Indian, and Steppe. Everyone else uses whatever is the closest match. In terms of physical appearance, the new DNA system can represent all ethnicities, so we probably won’t see face packs again. No era-specific clothing at launch.

Clothing is partly based on rank. A Western Count and a Western Duke might wear a similar style clothing, but one wears linen and one wears silk and you will be able to see that difference.

No more static event pictures. Events will feature the actual character models posed against some kind of background, and they can have props like knives, crucifixes, etc. Currently they don’t animate to actually interact like getting into a fight.

Tutorial is described as “Stellaris-like”, and they’ve improved the ways the game can give you suggestions on what you want to be doing. More approachable, but not dumbed down.

Custom religions you found can have Holy Orders. Not ready to talk much about that.

The tech system is more tied to characters than it was in CK2, but not ready to talk about it yet.

Councilor jobs like Steward are now an “office” that is placed on the map instead of a person, so you don’t have to re-assign it when the councilor dies. The office itself can even still keep working without a holder, just at a very reduced effectiveness.

The new Doctrines and Tenets are being used to represent more historically accurate versions of real heresies like Catharism. The AI will found these, and they are weighted to appear at the place and time they did historically. The AI will stick to founding historical heresies and won’t abuse the system to create random weird ones. That’s the player’s job.

Zoroastrians can still have incest, naturally, and you can reform any religion to allow it now.

Historical events like the Mongol Invasion are in. Dynamic epidemics from Reaper’s Due are not in, as they didn’t feel that feature worked very well. No word on how the plague will be handled.

Characters still get sick and are treated by Court Physicians.

Provinces now have Development, which is like civilization value in Imperator. Tribes don’t care about it but feudals get more taxes from it.

Revolt Risk has been replaced by Control, which is going to work a bit differently.

If your heir when you die is an old guy who has already invested all of his perks, you can respec his lifestyle tree once if it sucks.

Splendour is like your Dynasty XP. It’s used to buy Legacies, which are kind of like national ideas in EU4 and stay with your dynasty forever. One of these lets you increase the chances of inheriting congenital traits, if you want to create a dynasty of stong genius ubermensch. It’s not realistic but it is a playstyle they want to support.

Foreigners don’t care about Dread, only your own vassals.

Fleets are now handled like CK1. You just pay money to turn into boats. Naval combat is a possibility in the future. Henrik thinks it would be cool, especially for the Mediterranean.

Vikings can still sail up rivers.

There is a big dragon hanging out in the Terra Incognita on the Eastern edge of the map and it looks like they’ve left plenty of room to add China in the future. They wouldn’t say anything about it. No Chinese Emperor interactions at launch.

No plans for a CK3 to EU4 converter.

You only need to siege the fortified holdings to occupy an entire county. Castles are automatically fortified, but cities and churches are not unless you have built walls in them.

Factions are back. Peasants can now found factions. One example given was that Norwegian peasants living under a Danish king can found a self-rule faction, and Norwegian culture nobles will join them. Like a combination of a CK2 faction and a peasant revolt, very powerful.

Henrik is not interested in non-dynastic play (Holy Orders, etc). Playable mercenaries are a possibility, being landless and using your armies to make money. Adoption is also a potential mechanic. Neither one will be in at launch.

Much more events that deal with interpersonal drama and people important to the player, like family/friends/rivals.

Events can look back at how the relationship between two characters has developed over many years and generate content for them dynamically.

Poetry generator that will actually make your poetry better or worse based on character skill.

Double the number of content designers working on CK3 as CK2 had at its height.

Direct vassals will always matter. So the previous comment about Barons not being important doesn’t necessarily apply if you’re a Count.

No crazy fantasy events (immortality, Satanism, child of destiny) at launch. Undecided if they will be added later, but if they will, there will definitely be game rules to turn them off. CK3 should feel more historical compared to CK2. This was a goal.

There will be special mechanics for Crusades but they’re not talking about that yet.

Playing pagans feels “significantly different” from CK2.

You can reform from tribal to feudal.

Control is more of a short-term thing and Development is more long-term. For example, Control in a province is reduced when it changes owners but recovers quickly.

Religions have degrees of relation. Abrahamic > Christian > Catholic.

Eastern Religions are still more tolerant of heresies.

Ecumenism: Catholics/Orthodox/Coptic don’t treat each other as heresies for purposes of CBs and stuff. There are steps of tolerance. It’s not just “True Faith, Heretic, or Heathen”.

Converting foreign rulers with your chaplain will not be in at launch.

Investiture system and antipopes will not be in at launch.

When you found a new religion, some vassals and some provinces will convert. Based on things like opinion modifier and traits (Zealous/Cynical)

Terrain type has an effect on Development in provinces, but climate currently does not.

EDIT: No inventory system at launch.

[Nesrie]

Oh my, my sis is going to love this:

3. Year 867 will be there for viking fans

It’s not my favorite time but it could still be fun.

No crazy fantasy events (immortality, Satanism, child of destiny) at launch. Undecided if they will be added later, but if they will, there will definitely be game rules to turn them off. CK3 should feel more historical compared to CK2. This was a goal.

If they support mods again, they won’t have to focus on the fantastical at all, i am sure the mod community can handle that and allow it for those who want it.