jsnell
4747
Yes, people have repeatedly posted that. They appear to be totally wrong about it though. None of them have been able to provide any evidence for such a policy even when asked. The actual publicly available policy is about the price of Steam keys, not about the price of games.
Could you pretty please stop spreading that lie around, even phrased as hearsay? Or alternatively come up with some evidence for the claim.
No, that isn’t is. Criticism of people that are already down (and by down I mean at or near the bottom of life) should be avoided. If the goal of criticism, especially nasty criticism of the type that some expressed, is to change hearts and minds, then doing it will have no benefit. They person has already been laid low by life or other people.
Has it been? I don’t think anything shows that it was limited to steam keys. Could you direct me to this information?
Kevin, I was trying to make the point that criticism is fine but insults can easily cross the line. Especially in the immediate aftermath of an attack from an internet vigilante hate mob.
Yes, but that doesn’t excuse the former. Especially on Qt3 where we strive toward the better angels of our nature and punt the assholes to the curb.
CraigM
4751
Strive perhaps, but still fail at times. As you should be aware.
What do you mean by this? (Not looking to argue, but maybe clarify what I feel might be a misunderstanding.)
jsnell
4753
Here you go. Discourse is whining at me since it looks like I last posted this on June 28th, so you can probably find the previous discussion at around that time: https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/features/keys
The above policy is what the people making this claim point to as proof. And it’s very clearly and explicitly just about Steam keys:
We ask you to treat Steam customers no worse than customers buying Steam keys outside of Steam.
You should use keys to sell your game on other stores in a similar way to how you sell your game on Steam.
There are some sections that talk about bundles without mentioning keys, but it is in the Keys section. Interesting. Thank you forlinking it @jsnell .
The published policies about steam keys obviously only apply to steam keys. Do you have access to a full product sales contract? AFAIK the actual full agreement is NDA’d.
KevinC
4756
That wasn’t a comment directed at you or a post you made, just to be clear. I don’t think insults are ever warranted when it comes to topics like video games or what store a game is on.
They are nowhere near that. But I suppose we should stop badmouthing Roger Stone, Bernie Madoff and Felicity Huffman for their life choices, they’re pretty down too (just taking the idea to the extreme, not equating the choices).
I do agree that it’s in bad taste to overly beat the devs over the head, but, as they say, I’m saving my care for things that matter instead of first world problems.
I think the 3 main arguments have become intermingled, and not in anyones favour.
- storefront vs storefront? its storefront vs storefront+library+launcher+browser+social media+community+lifestyle.
- monopolies and business practices
- toxic (gamer) culture
The last bit has gamer in brackets because hobbies/passions/lifestyles have always been a source of violence and threats.
Whats the bodycount from football now? before you even go into fan on fan violence/murder, how many players, managers and referees have been attacked?
https://www.google.com/search?q=football+fans+attacking+referees
and boy band fans
https://www.google.com/search?q=one+direction+death+threats
and i remember Jimmy Wales describing the biggest wars ever happened on wikipedia were between dog breeding clubs. Perhaps we should stop scourging ourselves with the lash over “gamer” culture when its in fact just culture and human nature.
I don’t think any of those people have gotten their just desserts yet. All of them can sink much lower in their pain and suffer before I start to care. Although, as a Christian, I need to remember that Jesus preached forgiveness in all things.
Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, “LORD, how many times shall I forgive my brother or sister who sins against me? Up to seven times?” Jesus answered, “I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.”
But the developers, I can’t imagine anything they did deserves more pain and attacks to be heaped on them.
After a certain point, you figure someone has really suffered enough. That point isn’t the same for all people or all activities though, so I wish people would stop with the stupidest comparisons possible.
I don’t think the developers deserve any criticism for their actions or their playful blog post. That’s just my take.
stusser
4760
Clearly not. They were just being cute and had no concept of the shitstorm they were inviting upon themselves by doing so.
Sometimes you attempt a risky joke and it doesn’t land. Those are my kinds of people.
Aceris
4762
What you have to remember is that this is literally about the survival of their business. Every indie release is a roll of the dice, and if it comes up low that’s probably the end of your studio. A crowdfunding promise about the delivery mechanism of your game is a pretty tenuous thing in the face of that.
And given Steam’s near monopoly, it’s almost the default. Basically the same thing as saying your game will come out on PC.
Of course, that has now changed! At least the Ooblets developers didn’t promise Steam or they’d be even worse off right now.
But, it was on the steam website, being advertised.
CraigM
4765
Look, I am not insensitive to this fact. But, as a customer, I also see it as a potential issue. They took money predicated on promise X, but later reneged on that promise for reason Y.
As a customer I have the right to be dissatisfied or upset by that. Take A game that has been abandoned, like that Double Fine game about the space station. They made a financial decision for the company, that does not mean all the people who gave them money need to be happy or satisfied with said decision. Some people may be sanguine about it and chalk it up to poor risk. Others may become upset and vow to never buy another Double Fine game because they don’t trust them. Both are valid choices. As is the decision by Double Fine.
So if a company makes the decision to shift to EGS exclusivity, as a customer, I am within my rights and reason to be dissatisfied with that. Some studios have offered refunds for Kickstarter backers who request it, in light of that. And kudos to them for it. They are not required to do so, but it is a nice gesture.
So a company may make that choice, and be correct to do so. And a customer may be unhappy with that developers choice and be right to do so. No bad guys need be here.
That said I am not a fan of Tim Sweeny in particular, and Epic in general, and feel that there has been some at minimum dishonest, and borderline unethical, conduct from them. I place what ire I have (and it is rather limited) mostly at their feet.
