Well I’ll say this. Take 15 minutes and read my first… dozen? Or so posts in the thread. I lay out the fundamentals of the economy and trade, as well as a few other helpful tips. I cover military, stability, etc. but to get trade, hit this post.
Early game as Sweden, no you can’t really. You can fire the advisor though. The +1 monarch point they give is nice, but you have other priorities first.
Save them up. I normally funnel monarch points into development as a last priority. A couple thrown into the copper province is ok, but you want those points on hand so you can afford the tech and the ideas. They are your priority.
Expand on that and see if any neighbours have rivalled Denmark. The enemy of your enemy is your friend, and your enemy right now is Denmark. Improve relations with those nations. I recall Scotland is pretty happy to guarantee your independence, but they’re next to useless because they can’t really get troops across the sea. The game will give you events to help push you out of the Kalmar Union I believe, but I’ve always managed to do so under my own steam. It normally comes about when Denmark gets involved in European power struggles.
Build up to your force limit - I think starting the game, your force limit will be 14. Don’t have more than 2 cavalry in your army, make up the rest with infantry. And in general, never have more than 2-4 units of cavalry in any of your armies because of the way combat works. You need to be opportunistic. You won’t be able to break free straight away, it will take a bit of time. 400 years doesn’t seem like a lot of time to get things done, but it is in EUIV. You might find the first few years fly by with nothing happening, but you’ll be busy soon enough. Also keep a reserve of money so that when you do find yourself at war, fighting losing battles and losing manpower, you can recruit mercenaries that will pull you out of a hole. Mercenaries will change in next patch, but right now, they are stupidly useful.
It can definitely be frustrating the first few games. But it is ok that you played around with things and were swiftly crushed. Try again next time and you will do better!
As far as trade, the first thing you should do is place your merchants to steer trade into the Baltic. So put one merchant in Krakow and one in Novgorod. You can move them around a bit later, but to start, your trade income will be coming in your home trade node, which is the Baltic sea. The more trade power you have there, the more money you will earn in the node without it leaving and going to Lubeck. To maximize this, you want to steer more money into the Baltic Sea, and you do that with your merchants in Krakow and Novgorod.
Yeah @ooomalley regarding the advisor jewel, and all of those in general, those jewels are broadly things you can do. Not must do. You have empty advisor seats, but you don’t have to fill them, it may not even be affordable (by mid game as France I always have 3 3 star advisors, early game Albania I have zero). You may have a CB, but you don’t have to press it. You have peace timers. Ok. You have open diplomatic slots. Ok.
Things to always do before hitting the pause:
Determine short to medium term goals. Break free of Denmark in this case
Find potential allies. Look at who rivals Denmark (may need to unpause for 1-2 days to allow AI to set) and who can help. Brandenburg, Scotland, Pommerania, Poland are potentials here
set your rivals. Before you unpause the game pick 3 rivals. Do not rival someone you want to ally. If you rival someone there is a steep relations penalty. However there is a big relations bonus for nations that are rivals of your rival. So if you want to ally Brandenburg, and they rival Pommerania, well rivaling Pommerania yourself will help immensely in getting the goose steppers on your side.
Look at finances, see income and expenses. If your income is at least 1–2 ducats a month positive, you’re fine. But note every unit incurs a monthly maintenance cost, each cavalry is half a ducat per month! So if your income is +1.5 and you build 3 cavalry? Oops, income is now zero to negative. Always leave some positive cushion, events and inflation can turn a small income into large negative in a hurry.
Thing is, ignore some/ all of that if you want. Nothing forces you. But those are generally the things I look at before ‘day 1’ to set rough actions. If my income is healthy and I am below forcelimit? Build cavalry! If it is lean, build infantry. And try and build a nest egg as possible, having 50 gold in the bank when war happens will allow you to burst hire a bunch of mercs, which can turn battle. So just because you can build something now doesn’t mean you should.
I don’t want to discourage you, but you might consider a more beginner-friendly nation than Sweden. Ottomans if you just want the basic of the basic and to paint the map, or any of the great European colonial powers (France/UK/Castille/Portugal) if you want to play with colonization. They all have strong starts and good historical luck.
I don’t know if starting as a subject nation is necessarily the best way to learn the game. But I’m sure you can make it work if you’re married to Sweden.
There’s a strong argument for smaller countries. With bigger ones you aren’t that safe and you have a lot of concerns. Even France can screw up and die quite quickly if you don’t know what you’re doing, and they get involved into some complex issues like 100 hundred years, Burgundian Succession and HRE interactions in general. Ottomans are strong and surrounded by opportunities but also dangers - you basically have no natural allies and can be attacked on all fronts.
Ireland (or any of the Irish minors) seems to be a nice start. Apart from England no one is really that dangerous to you and you can be nice to England for a while. Of course you may die quite quickly from a bad war but it’s much better tutorial than starting as France and getting into a deadly spiral. I’d also recommend Japanese daymos who have similar dynamic on a grander scale: most of your neighbours are weak in the beginning and it’s pretty obvious what should you be doing once you find “Fabricate Claim” button. It becomes more complex later when you deal with the rest of the world but it won’t be soon.
I guess it doesn’t strike me as very likely that a new player is going to find any success with a Daimyo. It was actually one of my first attempts, and knowing nothing about the game it went disastrously. But I’ll readily accept maybe I was a below average new player. I didn’t want to watch 20 hours of videos before I played!
But I feel like Portugal can be played generally pretty peacefully. Stay allied with Castille/France, take North Africa, build a ton of colonies, make that money. Ottomans have a bunch of natural allies, namely whoever rival Austria and Hungary. Out of Poland/Muscovy/Bohemia you can generally find someone powerful to ally. Unless you go crazy with aggressive expansion, which is sort of a difficult concept to understand, so it’s very easy to do for a new player. But the Ottomans so greatly out-match all their neighbors that the only possible danger to them is from coalitions, which you need to learn to avoid anyways.
Not saying this is a start for WC, but it allows for a quick game where you learn a lot and have little room to learn bad practicies.
Thanks! I’m sure there is tons of great advice in this thread, but it’s also 3000 posts long, so thanks for the pointers.
Good to know.
Didn’t occur to me to look for that!
Ok! I’d like to get into the military details (Latin knights vs cheva-whatever, halberds?) but there’s time enough for the details later. When I was poor I reduced military expenditure and then increased it before going to war. I remember doing that in Vicky 2; should I do that here?
They were already there at game start, which makes sense, but left me with nothing to do, just feel impotent.
I see that now!
Good list! But as a junior partner I can’t rival anyone. :(
Yeah, I did Ireland as tutorial island in CK2, so maybe I should do them or Portugal now. OTOH I feel like being a subject lets me ignore a bunch of diplomacy stuff. But then again I’d have said that being a subject in Vicky 2 or CK2 isn’t a great starting idea, either. (I guess in CK2 everyone is kind of a subject, but whatever.)
One of the funny things about starting the game is that as I clicked around on different start nations, they helpfully told me which DLC I should buy if I actually wanted to play that one (Japan has it’s own, iirc). On the one hand it’s ab good way of navigating the ridiculous amount of content, but on the other hand I felt like I hadn’t even started yet and they were already trying to upsell me. (Granted, I got it for a dollar, but still.)
For tutorial starts where you just want some space to learn the ropes: Ireland in CK2, Portugal in EU4, Crete in Imperator, Brazil in HOI4. For Portugal, get a royal marriage and alliance with Castile then you can relax. You may want to break your alliance with England as well, as they will try to rope you in with their brawls with France. Castile in most games will provide enough of a buffer for you to learn the ropes at your own pace. It’ll be a quiet game unless you make wars happen on your own, but that’s not a bad thing. You can learn the basics of the UI, how to colonize, what to spend your monarch points are, etc.
Some pointers:
Yellow pips are offense, green defense, and they represent their power during each stage. Latin knights vs chevaliers probably move the pips around a bit, one better on attack than the other. Generally, for knights, the attack pips are more important. Also early game fire is very weak but become more important.
Knights are great early game because of shock. All things being equal higher shock is better than fire. Shock is the first phase and a crippling opening salvo can determine the battle. There is a reason the first 100 years steppe forces are the most deadly, their superior horses, ability to have more, and focus in shock tactics mean they can land a killer opening blow.
I don’t remember the exact math on how unit pips contribute, but it is significant. Pick the unit type that best matches how you plan on fighting. A small nation who will largely rely on defending in good terrain, such as the Swiss, would be better served picking the unit with more green pips. An aggressive conqueror more yellow.
Here is another tip
Just a clarification, but the offense/defense pips are related to the regiment’s ability to inflict or avoid damage in battle and not to whether or not the army attacked or defended. More info here.
The link gives recommendations on unit selections if you want some guidance.
Well, I tried again and failed again, but I think I did better.
I was having a lot of trouble getting a positive income without reducing my military upkeep. I think that building another light ship and putting them on a mission in the Baltic was a net positive, but I couldn’t quite find the exact maintenance of the ships.
Should I reduce local autonomy in the more remote provinces? If I did that and put them under clergy control then I got more tax out of them and was fairly well able to crush the eventual uprisings.
I looked at the church and market buildings, but they seemed a bit expensive. A church in Stockholm would pay for itself in like 30 years or something, which isn’t terrible, I guess, but probably not worth spending my only 100 gold. The market was less clear to me, but I think it would have worked out to be a somewhat smaller ROI without more trade in the local node.
Should I set a national focus to the administrative points? It starts on the military ones. I accidentally un-set it and it turns out you can’t change but every 20 years.
I tried declaring independence when Denmark was at war with Lithuania and their troops were spread out but they were able to get Pomerania and eventually Novgorod involved, too, which proved too much. I was able to pick off a couple isolated armies and put them off for a bit but in the end there were too many of them. I couldn’t figure out how to get anyone to help me out, despite the fact that I was buds with Denmark’s rivals.
I didn’t spend my points on anything but techs, and they were pretty slow coming. Except once or twice I had to increase stability due to events (unlike last time where I got stability increasing events…). I guess I could just turn up the speed.
Also, my navy was completely unable to compete. Should I build a bunch of galleys or something?
If you are fighting in the Baltic Galleys are your most cost effective choice. They get a bonus in seas, so everything inside the Oresund straight will trigger their bonus. It is a solid enough choice.
Sometimes the answer is your navy just can’t compete. Determine if it is even worth trying.
As for your last game, yeah seems about reasonable. Given the situation that is sometimes how things go. Choosing to declare independence when Denmark was distracted was the right call. But if you had no one supporting your independence it is a hard call.
Sweden is a powerhouse mid game, but is a tougher start as junior partner. Sometimes the opportunity isn’t open and you need to run at speed 3 for 20 years until your moment comes.
I can not remember if drilling armies is a DLC feature or a free feature. Normally I’ll do that when armies are idle to start raising army professionalism. Before that feature was introduced, I always dropped my army upkeep to accomodate better income when not in war. But there are so many other facets to consider. Fort maintenance, drilling armies and touching the army expense slider all come into play now. During peacetime, consider either removing or unfunding your forts to make savings in your income. While you’re prepping for war is when you might consider funding them again.
With cavalry, they do more damage, but not enough to justify the fact they cost 2.5 times as much as infantry. There’s a nice video out there that goes into those details, but in effect, infantry and cannons are more cost effective.
I agree with CraigM’s post above mine. For what it is worth, I learned the game and finished my first full game as Sweden. You have your priority right in terms of breaking free. But EU is a game about patience and timing things right. And that even comes down to choosing your battles. Forcing fights on defensive terrain so you suffer fewer losses, relying on Denmark to be reduced to nothing in terms of manpower. Don’t try and compete with your navy. I dare say to skip light ships initially - you will get better light ships with research and they can steer trade better. In this game, you do have to upgrade your ships and that costs valuable ducats, something you don’t have much of early game. But with the right conquests in and around the Baltic, trade income will be your bread and butter income and money will stop being an issue. Better yet is when you conquer England… but baby steps. Navy, I won’t say scrap it. But when war breaks out, keep them in port because the Danes will outclass you.
That’s where EUIV shines in terms of diplomacy. Keep an eye on what Denmark is doing. Who are they improving relations with? Who are their allies? Can you make their allies like you more so they idea of war is unappealing to them?
I normally set my national focus to the first idea group I want to embrace. That is generally diplomacy, and that means a focus on diplo points. If you leave it on military focus, think about what military idea appeals to you. I think Offensive is a good one to begin with military wise, and will enhance your excellent infantry later on.
It isn’t unusual to play the game on speed 4 (near max) early game. Like I said earlier, not a lot happens initially but you’ll find the speed slowing down over time as more cogs in the empire you’re building start to require your attention.
Personally I go with Defensive at the start when playing smaller countries. 15% morale bonus seemed to give me a better leg up. As it is the second ability in the group, you can drop it later for Offensive/innovative if you want to lean into Sweden’s infantry damage.
How do I get someone to support me?
There wasn’t an obvious button for it but I’ll look around.
Yeah, those are expensive.
I’ll get into the details one of these days…
I could probably have dealt with Denmark alone, but with their allies and vassals they were like 3x me or more.
I was thinking administrative because that’s how to unlock the idea groups. But maybe getting an early military edge would be worthwhile?
Maybe I’ll try that, because buttering up their rivals didn’t seem to do anything.
Yup, I think that will be happening.
Thanks for the alternate opinion. I’ll read up.
Should I do anything about the estates? Or the Sami regions that have very high autonomy and pay essentially no tax?
You want to improve relations with them (diplomatic action) as well as look at who might want to take Denmark down a peg. Their rivals are a good starting place, but try to get a sense of the geopolitical situation for an ally that might share the desire to see Denmark taken down a peg. Anyone Denmark is allied to, scratch them off the list.
If you build up enough support for your independence, the AI is smart enough to see the disaster coming and will sometimes grant you your independence. If you can’t find enough support, you’ll likely have to fight it out.
You probably don’t have to worry about them too much at the start. The only thing I would adjust is make sure the Nobility or Clergy don’t control the copper-producing province as that is a terrific source of income. In my last SWE game, I dumped a bunch of monarch power into developingt the production of that province and that bankrolled a decent standing army and advisors. Without it, Sweden is dirt poor. It’s usually not a wise approach to take at the start because you fall behind on tech, but being a subject of Denmark also has its benefits. I used them as a shield while I fell a bit behind on tech to build an economy centered around that one province then stabbed them in the back once the opportunity presented itself.
Yeah, it can be a bit of an adjustment at first. It took a while for me to realize that there are quiet periods of the game (especially near the start) and that’s what the speed settings are for. At first I kept feeling antsy, worrying that there was something I SHOULD be doing but didn’t know what it was.
Shortest synopsis I’ve ever read of EUIV :)