Wouldn’t that still be tech? Science created him, right? Not Magic.
I guess? Then Hulk is tech too. And Spiderman. In fact, none of the Avengers are mutants, even Wanda and Strange. All of them are either aliens or were born normal human. What counts as magic?
Yea, that’s my line of thinking. He isn’t farting worlds into existence or dumb crap like that.
Correct.
Also factual.
Well, this is a strange one, given there are no mutants at all in the MCU.
Well, no, Dr. Strange is Magic, not Tech.
This is indeed a specific origin type - Thor might count as “Aliens” but he might also be tech, technically.
Magic is Dr. Strange - powers born from study and arcane training, mystic arts. I believe Iron Fist would be Magic, for another example. Magic origins aren’t super common in Marvel.
Yeah, you’re right. I’d never noticed this before. There aren’t any non-alien humans born with their powers. (Except, I guess, Quill, but he’s only half human.)
Unless you count space magic, which is ubiquitous (in the films.)
I mean I guess you define magic as the ability to effect changes in your environment from a distance? So any telekinesis, mind control, telepathy, or reality bending counts, but being strong enough to level a building with your fist doesn’t. Thor is magic because he can summon his hammer and wield lightning. Vision’s flying, phasing and beam firing abilities are tech. Wanda tossing things around with her mind is. Being fast enough to dodge a bullet, unload the gun and put the bullets in a line on a table in the blink of an eye isn’t.
I’ve always defined magic as the ability to do things that cannot be explained by technology. You may need specific components, (The Wand of Meggido! The Cup of Blagthar and a dram of Mystic Water from Elfdown!) and you may need to use ritualistic motions to enact them (swirl the hands or wiggle your nose or have 43 impure monks chant the words on this scroll) but none of it is science-based or follow logically.
For example, me making a bag of dog food appear on my porch the next day by tapping my fingers on a metal and glass slate may seem like magic to anyone from a century ago, but I can (roughly) explain why it works via technology. Thanos snapping his finger and making half the universe’s population disappear in a puff of ashes when he possesses the Infinity Stone is pure magic. I don’t give a shit what Thanos or anyone else says. There’s no logical way for that to work, and no amount of caveman “dumbing down” the explanation helps.
This argument perfectly encapsulates where my interest fades in the whole MCU thing. If you want to call it ‘magic’, I’m good with that - it’s stuff that can’t be explained, or that nobody really bothers to explain. I can wrap my head around Falcon’s ability to fly and Winter Soldier’s arm - they’re outside the realm of what’s currently possible but not in a super crazy way like faster than light travel or something. The super soldier formula, yeah, that’s different but since it doesn’t make them bulletproof or shoot lightning out of their hands I can deal.
I’m on the opposite side of that: I think you could do enough to get people interested in the newer tone of the movie, without actually giving away major plot surprises. After all, it’s not like the Hulk movie was any better than Thor 2 as far as review scores go. If the movie doesn’t give anything away prior to that reveal, then the movie shouldn’t either.
We already had this conversation in another thread but: according to Kevin Feige, there’s no hard line between magic and tech in the MCU. What Strange, the Asgardians etc. control is not some completely other mystical discipline, rather just some sooper-advanced tech we puny humans cannot distinguish from magic.
(And again, this is very different from many other fictional universes, e.g. Harry Potter, where magic and technology are both totally separate from either other and antithetical to each other.)
I think he’s saying that advanced technology can seem magical, and science is discovering things that could be considered “magic” to earlier generations, so really what’s the difference to the audience? I don’t think he’s specifically saying that magic in Doctor Strange is actually just advanced technology.
Whether you’re looking at the ancient study of acupuncture pressure points or you’re looking an MRI – she’s trying to say we’re talking about the same things here. And if you’re not comfortable with the word spells, let’s use the word program. It’s all the same thing.
It just seems like an odd stake in the ground to say either “I can enjoy movies where there’s technology, but I can’t accept stories with magic,” or “Every instance of magic in the movies must actually be advanced technology.” Magic and technology may be interchangeable from a story perspective, but that doesn’t mean they’re identical.
But then literally the next thing you do is quote Feige saying this:
The “she” in question the Ancient One in the Dr. Strange movie, so it’s a character giving an in-universe explanation.
I don’t see how there’s a lot of wiggle room there. I feel like you’re trying to gaslight by saying, “Well, when the guy who’s in charge of the MCU says, on the record, that magic and tech are all the same thing in the MCU, what he really means is that they’re completely different. Also, there are five lights!”
I’m not sure who this is aimed at (Feige?), but those aren’t my views. I’m just passing along what Kevin Feige has said.
First of all, the Ancient One never actually says “It’s all the same thing”; that’s a paraphrase from Feige. And as he continues, he’s saying it’s “true to a certain extent” that science is advancing in ways that seem indistinguishable from magic. But “science” is not the same thing as “technology”, and saying that science and magic are indistinguishable is not the same thing as saying that all magic is just advanced technology, which he pointed out one paragraph earlier:
The idea of magic was introduced and written-off in a single line in Thor. What made you want to bring magic back into the Marvel universe in a full proper way like this now?
Kevin Feige: I don’t know if it was written off in that single line in Thor . It was given another way of looking at it. There are a couple of lines in Thor basically saying that science and magic, it gets to a point where what’s the difference. And I think we’re continuing that.
He specifically said that magic wasn’t “written off” by Thor’s line about magic and science being indistinguishable. The point of Thor’s speech and the Ancient One’s speech are about not dismissing something because it’s labeled as “magic”. If you want to say that Heimdall generates the Bifrost or generates an Einstein-Rosen Bridge, those are magical and scientific ways of saying the same thing…but when he summons it without using a device, that’s magic, not technology.
“Science” is not the same as “technology.” Saying that science and magic are two different ways of looking at the same thing does not mean that magic is “just some sooper-advanced tech we puny humans cannot distinguish from magic.”
Marvel basically has everything plus the kitchen sink. It’s impressive, but that doesn’t mean I like it.
Do you mean Disney?
Disney’s kitchen sink even talks!
But if Marvel were a writer, I would say he/she was in need of an editor. Lack of self-control/discipline.
I am so confused about who or what is being targeted here. Comics? Movies? “Marvel” as a person??
The “lets just throw random shit in here and hope it works” ethic of world-building maybe? (I guess, rather, the “let’s take all this pre-existing random shit and try to make it fit into a cohesive world” ethic?)
Welcome to superhero comics?
Star Trek in its sixth decade is turning into this also… Most organisms die when too much random “junk” accumulates inside them.