Fun-to-drive cars: convertibles, sticks, electric, and more!

[Editer]

With the number of posts in the aviation thread over the past few days about vehicles without wings, rotors, or rockets, I figured there’s enough interest to talk about “enthusiast” cars.

For some, that’s muscle cars with tons of horsepower.

For others, it’s nimble sportscars.

And now there’s also cars with really cool tech.

My favorite car I’ve owned was a 2000 NB Miata. It was an automatic (gasp!) in Evolution Orange, a really rare combo. It was so much fun to drive around the Vermont hills and mountains. Surprisingly, it was also a decent winter car with snow tires on it, mainly because Vermont was sooo good at clearing the roads. The only danger was being out when the snow started, because once about three inches fell, the nose would turn into a small ineffective plow.

Loved the amazing handling and the top-down experience. And the cockpit was small enough that it would stay warm in Vermont -7 winter temps.

Sold that when my son arrived – my wife wouldn’t buy into my explanation that you could disable the passenger air bag so you could put a baby seat in the front. So, on to a still-fun but far more sedate first-generation Mazda 6.

Cut to 2018. Mid-life crisis #2 hits and I start reading up on the Fiat 124. Basically a Miata chassis, but with a turbocharged Fiat engine and an (IMHO) far cooler look than the 4th-gen ND Miata. And a bit cheaper on the used market, too!

Drove it for two years and had a ton of fun with it! But ended up selling it after giving my 2015 Mazda 6 to my son for graduation, so I could get a more practical crossover. It was a super-fun car, but two factors made the delight factor less than the 2000 Miata I had:

• It had no spare tire, nor room to “add your own donut.” Sorry, but if a car is going to be used primarily for country road road trips, I want a freaking spare and not to have to rely on a pump, AAA, or learning how to patch a tire myself by the side of the road.

• The road environment in Washington State in 2020 compared to that of Vermont in 2000. Tiny car surrounded mostly by oblivious people in huge SUVs. Nearly got driven into in a parking garage by an F150 the week I got it – he didn’t see me till I laid on my horn.

On the bright side, I got $500 more than I paid for it in trade towards my Mazda CX-30, which I bought just before the pandemic and got a good price on. I miss it, but not as much as I missed the 2000 MX5.

(Coda to the story is I traded the CX-30 in on a CX-50 for basically the difference in price, hitting the sweet spot between used car prices still being staggeringly high but car manufacturers finally getting back to having more supply than demand. CX-30 didn’t have enough room, and the AWD’s gas tank was annoyingly small. Neither is an enthusiast car, but both drive far more like good-handling cars than SUVs like the CX-5 do.)

[Nixxter]

My mom (RIP Rita :) ) was an artist and antique dealer who had a great eye. She always wanted to get an Avanti (which were made by Studebaker, then became their own company after Studebaker folded). Avantis were designed by the famous designer Raymond Loewy.

She ended up having 2 Avantis, the coolest one was a ‘63 Avanti, which was the last year made by Studebaker. It had a vette engine in it. I loved driving it, when you punched it, it would howl a little. It was gold too, here’s a pic of a gold ‘63.

[Houngan]

I’ve mentioned it plenty, my Focus ST, but the backstory is my niece needed a car, I had a Mazda 3 with ~80k miles but I kept putting off buying a new car because I’m broken that way, analysis paralysis. It came to a head, a buddy had a Focus and liked it, and I remembered there was a hot Focus that could be fun.

The fun anecdote was the guy who picked me up at the dealership, you know how the salespeople congregate out front and call dibs or whatever when you drive up, he was a big guy. I’d say 6’2" or thereabouts and probably 320 plus. Nice guy, young guy, and he knew cars and driving well enough to make me like him, I’m no pro but you can tell the difference between car people and “desperate to get a job but I don’t want to work in a warehouse” people.

Anyway the local Ford dealership is in a bigass mall complex, but there’s a side road on it that leads into a shmancey neighborhood with a 90 degree curve. We jumped into an ST (manual) and I plastered him against the window (it was a left turn) and he loved it. That one was white, he found me one in a proper boring-but-so-resellable dark gray, and I’ve been enjoying it ever since.

One more anecdote, my brother who is the real car guy was riding with me another time and asked if my turbo gauge was broken. I just tend to game it out to not use the turbo until I have to, so I used to get 28mpg on a car rated for 22, now after 75K miles it’s down to 25.5.

[TheWombat]

I’m in a transition state I guess in regards cars. I love sporty cars, always have. Run the gamut from muscle (Z28, Mustang GT) to Euro-sled (Audi S5) to hot hatch (Acura GS-R, GTI, Golf R, Civic Type R), with a variety of less exciting (Focus ST, Mazda 3, regular Integra from the late 80s) but still kinda fun rides.

At this point, with electrics and SUVs killing off the affordable fun car world, and given my location, my age, and the very unlikely prospect of any disposable income at a level sufficient to buy a four-wheeled toy, I’ve pretty much reconciled myself to my fate. I do wish I had had the opportunity, or had made the opportunity, when I was younger to try out more cars and take a few more chances on them, but it is what it is.

Looking ahead, I just can’t see a scenario where I’d be able to have a summer/good weather sports car and a daily driver, or be able to have a really cool sports car as a daily. At least the Mazda 3 I have is fun enough and nice enough that I don’t feel like I’m deprived or anything! But yeah, I do wish I could go shopping for something zippier.

[Editer]

That’s so cool. I remember reading about the Avanti when they restarted production around 2001. Talk about a car that made a lasting impression!

[Aleck]

@Editer

My favorite car I’ve owned was a 2000 NB Miata. […] Sold that when my son arrived – my wife wouldn’t buy into my explanation that you could disable the passenger air bag so you could put a baby seat in the front.

@TheWombat

I do wish I had had the opportunity, or had made the opportunity, when I was younger to try out more cars and take a few more chances on them, but it is what it is.

Both of these really resonated with me. Since I was in high school, I desperately wanted a fun little convertible. My first car that I bought was a 92 Eagle Talon – the clone of the Mitsubishi Eclipse (the one w/o the turbo) – and it was a blast, the epitome of the “slow car driven fast” meme. Sold that and bought a 98 Jetta VR6, which was more sensible (4 doors!) but also still a fair amount of fun. However, the damn thing was one of the models made in Mexico, and those cars earned their poor reputation – I spent significantly more on maintenance for the car over 6 years of ownership than I did on the initial purchase (which is absolutely crazy).

I traded in the Jetta on a sensible car (CR-V) shortly after I got married. Two years later, we were looking at kid #1 arriving, and I realized (at a little over 30) that I was never going to own the convertible. I mentioned to my wife that I would always regret not owning a convertible. My wife hates convertibles, was three months pregnant, and there aren’t a lot of fun convertibles that are suitable for either pregnant women or kids. After a few go discussions, she relented and I got the go ahead – and bought a used S2000. The most boring S2000 available, silver (called “silverstone” after the track), original 2000 model year, no mods, had about 25,000 miles on it when I bought it in 2006. 240 HP 4 cylinder engine with VTEC, redlines at 9000 RPM, and is an absolute joy to drive. Never fails to bring a smile to my face when I’m behind the wheel.

That said, in 18 years of ownership, my wife has ridden in the car a half dozen times. I’ve only put an additional 40k on the odometer, as my daily drivers (since the kids came along) were a CR-V and an Odyssey, and were much better suited for hauling kids around (my primary car use case).

So I didn’t make Editer’s mistake – I got the convertible! – but I totally made TheWombat’s mistake, in that even though I own the damn car, I almost never get to drive it. With one kid heading to college in the fall, I hope to start daily driving it later this year (for the first time since I bought it). OTOH, my wife just asked the other day if I was ready to sell it, so I’m worried I might be having the inverse of the discussion from 2006 in the near future…

[TimJames]

If anyone wants to make a fun car work but can’t afford a separate toy, consider the Subaru BRZ or Toyota GR86. More practical than a Miata with a tiny backseat for kids or cargo, and a decent trunk.

[Scott123]

This is a nice thread! I enjoyed reading the above including @Alec - I had a Jetta too and it’s horrible electronics drove me mad, though I still enjoyed it as a car. The 2000 era looked good! I think I didn’t lock the car for the last few years of ownership, as if I did, the alarm would go off a half-hour later. Lol no-one broke in. I also put electrical tape on the dash to stop the glare of the dash lights. Check engine - nah. Check oil - nah. Check brakes? Uh… nah.

I still just love my little 2022 Corolla Hatchback XSE manual. Yes, in a way it’s a boring nothing car. It’s a Corolla. It’s got a 2.0L engine. So what right? My wife isn’t crazy about it, she feels it’s too low, too small, and too fast. She has a Rav4.

But here in the suburbs of Toronto everyone drives a huge SUV or F-150. I suppose ‘daring unusual people with unique exotic taste!’ might drive… a Silverado or, gasp, a Tundra, Highlander, or Explorer. I’m surrounded by 6,000lb SUVs and trucks, quite a few of them driven by people that probably should know better than dropping $70+K on them. Guess I also take responsibiilty to avoid crashing into them.

Oddly enough when I brought it to work, a younger woman I work was outside and asked me about it, said it’s really nice, and “I don’t think I’ve ever seen one of these before”. Which made me smile!

Bad photo with the pole shadow there. So yeah it’s boring but it has some shapes that I personally enjoy:

Ok no more boring pics.

@thewombat a good friend of mine has a white Mazda 3 hatch, turbo model, and I like it! But it’s an auto and the manual is just better to me and he even said he’s jealous of that part of it.

I’m mechanically inclined and do my own limited wrenching. Tires, brakes, and basic jobs, did a wheel bearing, ABS harness and a couple similar repairs over the years.

Yeah, small cars are awesome. The wheelbase of my car is so short, it just turns and handles awesome. It has full independent rear suspension, really handles well. @Editer the Miata I would love too, great pics.

@TheWombat in terms of buying higher end, like you I’m concious of being a middle manager in life, and potentially wanting to retire youngish, and also leave money for my daughter who has diabetes and a strong artistic leaning, which may not translate into earnings (though I also know there’s no real telling until she’s older). My other daughter as well. So I personally would and will keep costs down, and I’m ok with that! Honestly my level of interest in horsepower lines up really well to the GR86 at the upper end anyway (228Hp according to Google) and these days with climate change and complete disregard for safety of other road users, I have little interest in 0-60 times. Plenty to like down here in basic car land anyway, especially since buying used cars never bothered me too.

Edit to add that there’s nothing wrong of course with rewarding oneself with a nice car. A colleague of mine bought himself a Corvette, last year of the front engine version and it’s beautiful if not quite for me.

[TheWombat]

I love that Corolla, especially in that color (and so clean–I live on a dirt road, so, nope, no clean cars). I tried to get one, at least to test drive it, but finding a manual Corolla up here was nigh-on impossible. And it bummed me that in the USA at least you could only get the top-end sound system in the version with an automatic, bah.

Now, the GR Corolla, that’s a true beast, but pushing fifty grand (once dealers get their claws in) for a Corolla is, well, a hard pill to swallow. And yeah, the GR86/BRZ is about perfect in terms of balanced performance, size, and looks, and has a little back seat. But I am still leery of a daily driver that’s RWD up here. Though I do feel sometimes I should just say screw it, toss some sand in the back and put on good snows. Then again, a car like that in the winter seems somehow…wrong.

[Scott123]

Yes if they could have given us the GR Corolla for 32K and also kept dealers from being dicks about it, they could have restarted the whole econo-tuner scene. Seems these two requirements are not realistic these days.

[TheWombat]

And they could have, technically, but the market probably made that a no-go from a business standpoint. The common wisdom now in auto companies seems to be that anything other than SUVs, EVs, and luxury/exotic cars are dead. VW flat-out said North America isn’t a viable market for them any more. Most all of the former hatchbacks, sedans, and coupes you could buy, especially any with manuals, sporting pretensions, and a sticker under $40k have disappeared or are marginalized.

[Aleck]

That Corolla is beautiful! I love the idea of buying something smaller/better for the environment, but still fun and practical. Maybe once the kids are out of the house I’ll be able to daily drive something like that (my S2000 is a great car, but holy hell is it a mess if the weather gets at all bad – RWD plus all weather tires means it only gets out on sunny days!)

My Jetta was just an electrical gremlin. I am somewhat mechanically inclined, but after the fourth or fifth time I replaced the window switch relay things, I was ready to ditch the car in a lake. Again, loved to drive it – loved loved loved it – but holy cow was it an unreliable beast.

I forgot to mention up above that about 15 years ago my parents bought an old, beat to crap Miata. I loved driving that thing when I went to visit them. Even though it was old and beat up, it handled like a dream (and had those oh-so-cool pop up headlights!) My parents downsized houses, and ended up getting rid of it for a song about 6 years ago – just before the price would have rocketed upwards. Oh well. My understanding is that it got a good home where someone was going to fully restore it.

I have a dumb question for the rest of you who love stick shifts: how have you taught others to love the manual transmission? My older daughter and her best friend (both 17) want to learn to drive stick this spring. I haven’t taught anyone to drive stick in many years. Any guides/advice on teaching a young driver to drive stick shift?

[HideousRex]

[TheWombat]

Hmm, I’ve never taught anyone. My wife knew how to drive one already, and we don’t have kids. Modern transmissions and clutches for the most part are much, much more forgiving than the old school versions I learned on. But I think an empty parking lot, a low-powered car, and a lot of patience are still your best bets.

[Scott123]

@Aleck

but after the fourth or fifth time I replaced the window switch relay things

Hey you brought back another memory. Of giving up on the window relay, opening up the door panel, jamming a piece of wood under to hold the window up, and living with it for another two years!

At the US border I had to open the door to pass the guy my passport.

Re stick shift, the ONLY way to teach is to give them no choice but to drive stick, or stay home.

That, however, works like a charm on teenagers.

[Editer]

@Scott123

Re stick shift, the ONLY way to teach is to give them no choice but to drive stick, or stay home.

My first car (1974 Capri) was a stick. Bought it on a Tuesday and my mom said she could teach me to drive it on the weekend. Needless to say, I taught myself first thing Wednesday.

My girlfriend recently sold her 2013 Mazda 3 stick and I regret not taking my son out in it and teaching him to drive it before she upgraded.

Funny story when she bought the car: The dealer tried to add $400 for “anti-theft stickers,” which would be added throughout the car to keep it from being easily parted out. We refused and I pointed out “It’s a stick. That’s the best anti-theft package you can have.”

[KWhit]

My fun cars over the years:

1986 Pontiac Firebird with T-Tops. Stick shift, fun to drive and the T-Tops were just choice! And it had rear louvers on the back window. Not my pics, but this is what it looked like.

1990 Toyota Celica. Also a manual transmission. Small enough to really get after it. Got this one new as a graduation present. Yes, I was spoiled. And fun fact, my wife started dating me in college because she liked my car! So… yeah.

Then I had a couple of boring Honda Accords and a Hyundai Sonata.

But now I drive this:

2023 Acura Integra. Love this thing. It’s an automatic, but after driving boring sedans for a couple of decades, I am thrilled.

[TheWombat]

Yeah, the new Integra may not be like the old Integras, but it’s a sharp and appealing car. I couldn’t get one without the stick though, and that pushes the price up to around $38k+ which is very difficult to justify for what is at that point a Civic Si with a nicer interior. Though the dealers around here, if they get an Si, are jacking them up by five grand so it’s kind of a wash, with the Acura winning handily at that point.

[thatdudeguy]

@Aleck

I have a dumb question for the rest of you who love stick shifts: how have you taught others to love the manual transmission?

This is highly situational advice, but my dad used to teach the kids in our extended family to drive a manual using a little 50cc trail bike. It was light and low-powered enough that dropping the clutch just meant it would snort forward a few inches and die, and getting the feel for engaging the clutch was easier with two hands than two feet. Then, they’d jump in a car and get it right away.

[TheWombat]

Not a bad way to do it. About the time I started driving a manual transmission car, I learned to ride motorcycles on a CB125 I think it was, a Honda with a kick-starter. Once you learned how to start that baby on a steep hill, nothing fazed you about driving a stick in a car.