It’s not “what I think happened” that’s up for debate, it’s whether or not there’s a possibility that ArenaNet was justified with the information we know. My position has been that we don’t know everything that happened, and from what we do know, such possibility exists.

So here’s what we know, or at least what I know. If there’s been more information from Price or ArenaNet than what was shared via Polygon, I haven’t seen it.

This is the second, longer statement that I’m aware of from ArenaNet, given to Polygon when they contacted them after their interview with Jessica:

Jessica had identified herself as an ArenaNet employee on Reddit and Twitter, had been discussing Episode 3 storytelling with fans on Reddit, then had written a 25-part tweet about how we tell stories in MMOs, relating it back to Episode 3. She was representing the company. The expectation was to behave professionally and respectfully, or at least walk away. Instead, she attacked.

Concerns have been publicly raised that she was responding to harassment. It’s not my place to tell employees when they should or shouldn’t feel harassed. In this case, however, our employees could have chosen not to engage, and they could have brought the issue to the company, whereby we would have done everything we could to protect them.

We won’t tolerate harassment. When an employee feels harassed, we want them to bring the issue to us, so that we can protect the employee, deal with the issue, and use it to speak to the larger issue of harassment.

Whatever Jessica and Peter felt internally about the situation, this was objectively a customer engaging us respectfully and professionally, presenting a suggestion for our game. Any response from our company needed to be respectful and professional. A perceived slight doesn’t give us license to attack.

We’ve all dedicated our careers to entertaining people, to making games for the purpose of delighting those who play them. We generally have a wonderful relationship with our community, and that’s a point of pride for us. We want to hear from our players. It’s not acceptable that an attempted interaction with our company — in this case a polite game suggestion — would be met with open hostility and derision from us. That sets a chilling precedent.

The tweets were made on July 4, when the studio was closed for the holiday. We were aware of them that day, and decided we’d need to take action in the morning. The fact that the community’s anger was escalating on July 5 could make it look like our action was a response to the community’s anger. But that wasn’t the case. We took action as soon as we practicably could.

I hate to let an employee go, and I wish the best for Jessica and Peter, as for any former employee, in whatever they choose to do next.

Whatever you thought of the tweets, Jessica and Peter were also part of the team that brought you the kidnapping scene in Episode 1, which was a wonderfully well-executed scene. That’s how I want to remember their time at ArenaNet.

There’s a lot there that’s adding context, some important, some not. I think the part about the July 4 holiday is important—it’s a plausible explanation for firing her the next day instead of immediately. I think some of the other stuff could be read as empty corporate platitudes or legitimate concerns, depending on your suspicions, but doesn’t meaningfully affect the cause given for termination either way.

So to boil that down to “Why was she fired?”:

Jessica had identified herself as an ArenaNet employee on Reddit and Twitter, had been discussing Episode 3 storytelling with fans on Reddit, then had written a 25-part tweet about how we tell stories in MMOs, relating it back to Episode 3. She was representing the company. The expectation was to behave professionally and respectfully, or at least walk away. Instead, she attacked.

Any response from our company needed to be respectful and professional. A perceived slight doesn’t give us license to attack.

It’s not acceptable that an attempted interaction with our company would be met with open hostility and derision from us.

If you really want to cut it down:

Jessica had identified herself as an ArenaNet employee on Reddit and Twitter. She was representing the company. It’s not acceptable that an attempted interaction with our company would be met with open hostility and derision from us.

At its harshest reading, that’s all the justification they need to fire her, or anyone else (unless someone wants to wake legowarrior up to talk about how unions are the answer 🙂).

So ArenaNet’s claim is not that she was fired for being “less than perfect”. She wasn’t fired for “losing her temper”. She wasn’t fired for “misreading someone’s intent”. She was fired for representing ArenaNet with open hostility and derision.

So what does Jessica say?

She says ArenaNet “folded like a cheap card table”* when confronted by toxic fandom. I dispute that that’s been proven, ArenaNet offered a specific and plausible response to why she was fired the next day instead of immediately after becoming aware of the tweets.

Further quoting Polygon quoting her:

“I was given no opportunity to argue my case,” she said. “My manager was on vacation. [O’Brien] spent some time insisting that developers must be friends with the company’s customers, and that it was unacceptable to say that we aren’t, even when we’re not on the clock. He told me I’d look back and regret this, because we were doing great work and I’d ruined it.

“The whole thing was highly unprofessional,” she continued. “There was zero reason for him to be there. He wanted to vent his anger, and he had the power to command a woman to stand there while he took his feelings out on her, so he did. Then he walked out, [the manager] got my stuff from my desk and the HR person asked for my key card.”

“I was given no opportunity to argue my case” may literally just mean “I was not given the chance to argue that attacking the fan was the right thing to do”. That does not seem like evidence of an injustice, the exchange was public and available for management to review for themselves, and the explanation given for termination did not depend on whether she had the moral high ground or could convince them she did.

As leveled, the explanation would’ve been accurate even if Deroir was objectively, unabashedly attacking her.

“I had, in my time there, zero warnings about my social media use. Everything I said on Twitter was consistent with what I’ve been saying for years and how I’ve been saying it.”

I have no reason to believe she’s lying, at no point does ArenaNet indicate she was warned. Their justification for termination did not involve failure to heed earlier warnings. They stated plainly what she did this time, the implication is that was enough, a fireable offense on its own.

To ultimately answer your question @Dave_Weinstein, I think what happened is that Jessica Price was fired for representing ArenaNet with open hostility and derision toward Deroir. I think that’s harsh, but so is what she did. At face value from both sides, I can live with their decision and simultaneously wish it hadn’t come to that. If there were ulterior motives and agendas that colored the decision to fire her (sexism, caving to toxic fandom, etc.), I haven’t seen sufficient evidence to convince me. I’m not ruling out the possibility, but I’m not assuming that’s what happened.

*you’d be forgiven for thinking she was accusing ArenaNet of “not cooperating and pinching her fingers because of toxic fandom.”

Emboldened idiots are not necessarily a more credible threat, exhibit B:

So, to recap. You think no one has anything to worry about, based on this letter.
Jennifer Scheurle (the target of this and numerous other letters like it) thinks that she doesn’t need to worry because she has strong corporate support, but that other women in the industry do have to worry.

Since the only thing you cited was the text of the letter, I can only assume that you are depending on your experiences to assess the threat it and letters like it pose.

What experience(s) do you have as the target of coordinated emailed attacks? And what experience(s) do you have with the internal structures, policies, and practices of game development studios?

When I said “Jennifer doesn’t have anything to worry about from emboldened trolls”, maybe I should’ve phrased that less definitively. I can’t know for certain that an emboldened troll isn’t currently egging her car or DMing her hateful threats or worse. Predicting what the fringe is capable of is beyond either of us.

What I should’ve said to be more specific was that a developer being fired for cause does not give the empty threats of trolls against other developers more weight. Can you explain to me why it would? Jennifer Scheurle didn’t in the tweets LMN8R shared, all she did was share a hilariously bad example of these threats. She didn’t demonstrate why that would be taken seriously now, because I remain unconvinced that empty threats and reddit rage played any significant role in Price’s termination.

That’s what was shared, that’s what I responded to. It is a safe assumption at all times that all of us are depending on our experiences to assess everything, we have nothing more. But our experiences include taking in what others have shared with us about life—experiences, events, knowledge, etc., about things we haven’t done or witnessed for ourselves.

Only what I’ve read/heard about, to both. If your bar for entry to this discussion is that I need to have done one or both, I guess our conversation is over.

Once again @WhollySchmidt says what I mean.

I’m not intending to imply that people have to be perfect on social media. That’s an absurd absolute that’s unresponsive to the point. To wit: don’t be openly hostile and derisive to your customers while representing your company. If you can’t manage that (and it’s a pretty low bar), then you shouldn’t be in a customer facing role.

As to the continuation of the conversation, I find the idea that someone should not take an appropriate action because it might encourage bad actors to be wholly unpersuasive.

The problem seems to be that everyone is now in a customer facing role, whether we are good at it or not. It’s a bit scary that something outside of work can have a big impact on your employment status and that if your boss decides enough is enough, if impacts not only your current employment, but likely future employment.

How come? There are thousands upon thousands of devs (and millions upon millions of employees in general) who are not public on twitter or other social networks.
You are not public here on qt3 either, I am not too (public as in under full real name with employer linked). Somehow we live.

Is that really a good thing though? Should I feel worried that everything I say and do can be constantly reviewed and looked at if I decide to be public about who I am?

It’s the reality for professionals in 2018. Has been for about two decades. Are we surprised?

That can be a problem, but I’m not sure if that was a factor here. It’s not clear if Price would’ve preferred, for example, to have never been involved in an AMA in the first place.

I can easily imagine job roles that didn’t traditionally involve customer interactions being pressured to add some element of that, but I haven’t seen Price or anyone indicate that was part of the problem here.

I do not consider it a good thing, but it has been a thing for a long time. People have been getting fired through twitter for a decade that it exists. It is what it is.

As someone who literally lost a full-ride scholarship to NYU about 14 years ago due to some ill-advised-but-not-actively-seditious “political” ““writing”” on LiveJournal, I can confirm that this has been happening for a long time and also that it is dumb and bad :)

One of my friends works for Arkane and has been getting non-stop harassed about this since it happened. Had a petition go up to fire her, etc. Probably just lucky timing.

Also, the GamerGate reddit has almost 100,000 members. I know folks like to shit on some deleted reddit post as fringe, etc, but 100,000 isn’t that fringe. There’s a lot of discussion about Jessica Price. I bet /v/ over at 4chan is even better!! I wouldn’t know, though, I’m not a racist douchebag manchild.

FTFY. There have been several devs that were hostile and derisive towards their customers. They still have jobs.

Yeah, this is the part I think people aren’t grasping. Your Internet Life is your Real Life now. Employers are going to research it just as they would your other background before they hire you. In this case, speaking with a customer of the company the way she did cost her a job. This is 2018. It is no longer the Internet of 1998.

I understand @Jason_McMaster pointing out that there are bad actors out there who want to attack certain people and certain groups of people. That doesn’t change the reality that she attacked a customer who was not being hostile towards her and even that person was, if you want to be professional, you have to walk away.

And also some who were not even that hostile and yet were fired, like Adam Orth.

I’m amazed people are still trying to force this into a misogyny lens. A woman and A man got fired for cause (open hostility to an important customer). Unless there have been instances of male Arenanet devs behaving similarly and getting away with it, I just don’t see how you can possibly generalize this out to ALL women.

She made headlines. The others often don’t. You said yourself it put ArenaNet in the spotlight. Imagine what it might be like if you didn’t have a mob chasing you around trying to get you in the headlines, or don’t. I guess it’s easier if you don’t imagine that.

I agree it made headlines. I don’t agree it made headlines because she’s a woman. Am I wrong on that? I clearly have some blindspots here, so maybe I’m missing something.

You should not use your real name on the Internet.

On the internet somebody can start googling around and find a lot of information about yourself. And you will not know nothing about him. He can exploit that information to attack you, and you can’t defend youself.

The first protection is to use a nickname.

The only place where using your real name is a okay idea is on places where is important your background. Like a place where doctors, journalist, electrical engineers post. If a electrical engineer make a post about engineering, signing with his real name. I know is a informed opinion. Or the doctor talk about health. Then is okay. This is the exception.